30 Model A - 32 frame Do's and Don'ts?

I'm in the process of pinchin' my hinie right now. I used the wescott drawings and had at it...

 

I'm no engineer, but wouldn't cutting out the top and bottom of the rails, bending things to the proper setting then welding in one piece replacement plates be quicker and stronger?

 

When moving the crossmember forward, how much further is best practice? How much wiggle room are we talking here? Maximum without sacrificing safety/integrity or proportions.

 

+1 for B***' method on the Bubba Coupe. That car sits just right for sure!

 

Thanks D-Russ, I was afraid you would say that.

 

I took a different approach to setting up the ch***is for my coupe build.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94649&showall=1

As was mentioned above, to me the shadow line cast by the body is important. There is a large difference between the contour of an A body and the 32 frame. This created a varying shadow front to back.

I went with the slight channel BUT also recontoured the rails to match the A body to achieve a consistant overhang. It was a lot of work but for me it was worth it for the look "I" want.

I thing ultimately this is the deciding factor WHAT do you want it to look like?

 

Thanks Tim, Sorry I missed your build thread in the begining, I like the extra frame detail work. What do you see as the main advantage to your rails over American Stamping? Bob

 

Thanks! I chose them for a couple reasons. Formost was they were nicer stampings than the ASC rails. They needed less tune up. This is just my opinion.......

Also a friend had an extra set so it was easier to pick them up locally!!!!!

 

Thanks! What is the finished wheelbase on your car, it sits just right. Bob

 

107 inches

 

7/8" pinch at the rear. But I decided not to bob the rails/ but shorten them. I redid the subrail at the bottom of the trunk panel, and lengthed the corners down to fill gap between the frame.
( I have not cut the frame ends yet in these pics, but I'm just moving the rear spreader forward to the forward set of holes, and drilling new ones, then loping off the excess)

 

I just got finished with flattening and pinching 32 rails for my 28. Here's the thread I threw together after work in the evenings. Now that I'm back at home...and the car 500 mile away my thread is gone dormant till my next trip. Here's the thread:
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=646081



Our procedure was to a stamped set of Dearborne rails (unboxed) No crossmembers present. For reference only....

As far as the route we took. Like I said we flattened the rails and did a slight pinch for the cowl. As the 28-29 has the narrowest as compared to the 30-31...we thought it was needed. But first we flattened the rails to make flat for the A body. Opting out of the slight channel that you have to do at the cowl if you dont. Our cut for the flattening was at the point that it rises up, one cut per side. A straight cut on the top rail and straight down stopping short of the bottom of the flair...esentially stopping the cut 1.5" from the bottom. Took very little heat to get it to drop. We made sure to support the rail after we ensured it was flat and eventually cut piece of 1/8" steel (pie shape) Opting to weld the rt and lf sides of the wedge and leaving the top open for the moment till after the pinch. With both sides flat we prepped for the pinch. Cut two eyes to weld into the c-channel for a pulling point. The pulling point was near the front of the cowl. At the pinch point we only sliced the top rail, but if I were to do over I'd have sliced the bottom as well. The pinch made the bottom rail pucker abit so we had to eventually slice the center of the pucker, hammer it flat and weld it up. As our horns was locked down with clamps an on frame centerline and body centerline...we were able to heat and pull one side at a time. And as we decided to get the frame on the rails we used the actual body as the template...there was no doubting a cardboard template or the like. Originally I had drawn a template, but as using the body was only a matter of cutting out a hole in the back we did that instead. I'd recommend that again.

Luckly the frame table was so stout that we connected one end to the pulling point and the other to the jig table rail (4x4 1/4 steel construction) worked great.

The rear rails fit pretty good in back, I did not see a reason to pinch them. As far as the shadowing effect mentioned. I had not thought of it till now. It's true that I ended up with a consistent 1 1/4 ledge from the body to the rail but as it was consistent we were happy with our results. I'll have to look at what one of the other posters described they did....recontured the rails. I'm sure that's alot of work. That's one battle that I will not fight on this one. Yes, I am feeling abit inadequate now!!! Damn! I'm worthless.

P.s. Someone mentioned wheelbase. I am pushing the front crossmember fwd 2" to make 108 WB. The addition to the eng comp will save some need to cut the firewall if at all.

Boxcar

 

Nice project Boxcar! Looks like you have a nice solid body to start with. Once my '30 Roadster body is in one nice ***embled unit I'll be buying a set of rails.

 

Good info in here! I'm in the middle of my build, would like to see more on how pie-cutting the cowl was done.
I'm NOT pinching and NOT channelling mine, I'm 6'2" and want to be comfy in it.

 

I measured the width of my coupe at the rear wheelwell (42") and it agreed with the Wescott Dwg. I pinched the rear of the frame 3/4" on each side and the widest part of the frame is 43 1/2", still like the Wescott dwg. So my shadow line should be chose to 1/2" if Boxcar's is an 1 1/4".

 

I have started my '28 tudor build and would also like to see how people are pie-cutting the cowl. I am a shorty at 5'9" and NOT pinching or channeling because I think it looks better on '28-'29. I like the way the frame is revealed below the cowl almost the same as the cowl is set in on the A-pillar.

 

Earlier this year I seen an A roadster that carried the contour of the frame with about a half inch reveal the whole length of the body. It was *****in'. Seems like a lot more work, but I think I have been sold on doing it to my A build.

 

Can anyone post some photos of the rear sub frame work needed for a coupe to sit on these rails? Im about to take this on in the next few weeks. Looks like the subframe needs to be cut out after the last cross member at the front of the rear wheel wells. So lets see some pics!!

 

Lots of great info here

 

Sorry but I'm no help on a coupe. But for a Tudor the cut out started at the backside of the rear seat support ...don't know what to call it at the moment. The thing the back of heel would tap if you are in the seat. We terminated the cut along the same line as the rear lower support channel that runs along the lower back end of the car. I'd say that the side cuts (remaining subfloor) was around 1/2 to 1/4 of an inch remaining.

We did not piecut the cowl...but I've seen it here. somewhere
Boxcar

 

Here's a couple good threads with pics of the rear subframe fabrication:

The Rolf Coupe build

The Tindall Coupe Build

 

What are some pros and cons, difficulties, of either using the socal style frame where the rear of the frame tucks in VERSUS modifiying the subrails to fit a standard 32 frame.

Which is the best, or preferred way, and why?

 

Great question, I'd like to know the answer as well.

 

I would say it's a matter of preference. But for me it was an easy choice because my body had missing/damaged subrail pieces from the front of the wheelwell back.

 

I don't think you guys took a good look at Bill's picture. Note the model a subrails have to be modified even on the So-Cal frame where it goes up and over the axle. The model A subrails are flat. The pinch on the rear of the frame is required just to get the deuce rails inside the sheetmetal of the model a wheelwells...

<LEGEND>Attached Thumbnails</LEGEND>

 

Great thread! I have the same issue with trying to decide what to do with my 30 coupe since it has original mint subrails in it..... I really hate to hack them up. I probably will though to get the look I want.

 

This is a great informative thread. I am only in the planning stages of a 31 coupe on a 32 frame. I like the pinched, with 3/4" channel. I was thinking about running a 32 gas tank in the back, from some of the pictures it looks like the rear of a Model A coupe body sets right on the rear frame horns. I would ***ume the rear frame horns would have to be cut and lowered (reshape the rear of the frame) to use a 32 tank. Anyone have any experience with this?

 

i'm building a 1931 model A roadster and i have a set of deuce rails that i want to put under it. i got some measments from wescott website and layed out the frame the way that it says but it still doesnt seem to fit good, i pintched it at the front and have the front of the cowl over the frame about 3/4 of an inch but the frame seems to sit in too far in at the rear or the cowl and behind the doors on the rear quarter panel. what is the measurment from the outside of the frame to the outside of the body?

 

Case in point:

 

i've already pinched the rear and cut off the rear section of my new sub rails and have the body sitting over the frame. i just went out and looked at the body again and the frame sits in about an inch on either side from the body right where the cowl meets the door, is that normal? sorry i have no pic