Well today I busted my cherry on my first trans pan removal to change the filter and gasket on my 727 and was disappointed to see fairly dark fluid and a good layer of sludge/gunk in the bottom of the pan plus a peppering of shavings on the top side of the filter. I have just bought this car (slightly OT 66 Chrysler 300) so have limited knowledge of it's true history but had engaged gears when I fired it up sitting stationary, but there is still work to be done before any kind of road test. So how much gunk is too much? Not knowing what to look for and a search has'nt offered a decent result, am I screwed on this trans? Thanks Andy
Get the pan squeaky clean, slap a new filter on and fill 'er up with oil.. maybe put a magnet in the pan if theres not one.. and who knows you could be fine at that. At least thats what I would do. Good luck
I agree with cdaily3. Ive' seen some ugly stuff in pans before and the trans will still work. If not your only out $30.00 for fluid.
Yup, what they both said. I did trannys for 30 years and 727's had the best filter around. If its the fluid that has been in there for 50 yrs I would pull the drain plug on the convertor and drain that also. That old wives tale of changing the fluid and then having a problem is malarky. If it slips after that, then there was a problem from the getgo. Or if its already out, why not have it gone through? Then no worries for next 20 yrs.
On a normally maintained tranny you should get about a teaspoon full of debris or less each filter change. And yes, you CAN make things worse by servicing a worn trans, as you replaced fluid with suspended friction material for new slippery fluid.
I would clean the pan, change the fluid and filter and go with it. I have been playing with 60's Mopars since I started driving in 1974 and most of the used ones I worked on usually had about a half teaspoon of metal shavings in the pans if they had not been changed for several years. The 727 is a tough tranny.
If the lack of suspended friction material causes a problem, then the trans was already in need of a rebuild. So yeah, you're both right.
No worries, it sounds fairly normal. As mentioned, just clean it up and fill it back up & drive it. I've always heard horror stories about servicing old transmissions and "you should just leave it alone" if its past a certain point. Never had a problem with a fluid/filter change in any old car or truck I've owned. I've had similar amounts of gunk in old truck pans. Its always the abuse AFTER you get it changed thinking its a 'new' tranny that kills it
Yeah I've done exactly that, changed filter and gasket and hope it all works out rosie. Pan was squeaky clean, torqued up and re-filled. Ive read the horror stories too and maybe I should have kept some of that friction material in a jar on the shelf just in case! Once I get my new wheel cylinders and get some brakes back I can test run. Thanks fellas for the reassurance.
I got a '49 Ford with a 302/C4. It looked like the trans fluid had never been changed. The trans shifted great but I changed the fluid anyway. Afterwards, it took the trans a few seconds to engage when cold. The shifts took awhile also, until the trans warmed up.
I'd be more concerned if the fluid was really dark and smelled like burnt toast. That would indicate excessive heat and that's never good. Is the inside of the trans varnished up or does it still look like clean aluminum inside? I think I'd skip adding additives at this point. I'm sure Lucas makes some fine products but adding the wrong additive may give you a fluid that's TOO slippery and not allow the clutches and bands to apply properly. For testing purposes save yourself a few bucks and just go with Dexron. As already stated, be sure to drain the convertor as well. Also drain and flush the cooler and make sure there's no restrictions in the cooler lines. The 727TF is a pretty tough trans and you may likely end up with a "keeper".
I used Sea Foam tranny additive, when I swap in my new tranny. I haven't had to open it up yet, but I've heard that stuff does a good job. Lately it's been on sale at my local NAPA.
It's a little late, but did you adjust the Low/Rev band while you were in there as well as the kickdown band? Light snug to 10-15 ft-lbs and back off 2 to 2 1/4 turns The Low/Rev band has been known to break when they're too loose/worn and can cause harsh engagement as well... If it goes into Reverse without too much of a clunk, defer until to the next service...
the sea foam additive is a trans flush.i wouldnt flush a trans that old. ATP AT 205 is an excellent additive,its called transmission re-seal. i have seen it correct slipping issues due to hardened seals. the 727 in my OT 80 Power Wagon (snow Plow) has taken a ton of abuse,i overhauled it about 10 years ago,i broke a band in it. 470,000 kms and its still goin strong. also,the 727 has got to be the easiest trans to rebuild/replace clutches and seals. i have done a dozen or so,first one when i was 19,in my mom's basement.
I think were it matters is if it's actually worth fixing. I've got a $250 dollar truck that runs and drives great but isn't worth fixing if the trans stops working. I'm pretty sure that if i drop the pan i will ruin the magic that keeps this thing moving. But I also own a truck that I tow alot with that I change the fluid yearly. 150,000 on the original trans and it has been towing it's entire life.
That's what I'm hoping, that I've got a keeper, cause I definitely don't have the funds to rebuild at the moment. No burnt toast smell and the internals were pretty sparkly clean to my relief. I didn't drain the cooler or check the lines, will give this a look at tonight I'm not touching any bands yet, and will see how it shifts etc Thanks for all the replies, hopefully someone will be able to use this info when they bust their pan popping cherry also.
a few piles is ok, a thin-to-medium film is ok, a butt-load everywhere usually means the frictions are pretty worn. You'll probably be fine, but i would consider band adjustments mandatory to minimize any excessive slipping. Not hard to do at all- i had to go to Sears to get 4/8 point sockets locally without waiting. I love handing those to someone asking for a socket just to see the look on their face. rick
Sounds like the trans was used hard . You just never know with a trans . I have seen them so black you would think the trans was shot and worked just fine . I have seen a trans with clean fluid and it not work at all . The point here is , you changed the fluid and filter . Now if it shifts right then you are good to go . If not , you are on borrowed time until it does go up . It could be years before something goes wrong . Personally I would worry about it . If it works , your are OK , if not ...well then you know that answer . Lucas trans additives are very good too ! I think you will be fine ! Retro Jim
If you're new to doing this kind of work I can understand not wanting to do the band adjustments for right now. But at the least, check and adjust the T/V linkage if needed. This is the rod that goes from the throttle linkage down to the transmission. There should be a part with a long slot threaded to the upper end of the rod where it attaches to the throttle lever on the carb. Unhook the throttle return spring and fully open the throttle. With it held in this position, then push the T/V rod rearward and see if it moves any further back. If needed, slip the T/V rod off of the pin and rotate it so that at wide open throttle the T/V linkage is also as far back as it can go without binding the throttle. This will help to give you slightly later and crisper shifts. Being in Australia I'm not sure about whether you'll need to turn it clockwise or counter-clockwise, but you'll figure it out. Oh, and don't forget to put your throttle return spring back on!
btw: you can never have to much gunk in/on anything. Maybe a couple balls of gunk will make their way into just the right spots in the valve body and you'll have the best shifting 727 ever
Long ago a buddy bought a powerwagon with non working trans. Pulled it apart, everything fried, NAPA had a 100 buck kit, instead the friend Bought one at a scrap yard for 60 bucks like new inside. Put the best pieces together went to the library to find out about adjustments. Worked excellent, i cannot understand the mystery and high prices for fixin these things. Couldn't keep enough gas in the full time awd 360 about 5 mpg pig.
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