Projects Project Mattitude: the Beginning

Great progress. Just curious why you want to up-sweep.....to me it very often looks like a car is sagging. Couldn't the same change be realised by z-ing it just inside the firewall so it looks channeled? Maybe I'm saying something stupid, I don't know........you already have the measurements and know how much higher you want the front end upwards. Just a thought perhaps. (I'm trying to learn here at the same time too btw.

 

I'm trying to get the stance spot on to what I have in my head but at the same time, I want to minimize how much drop to put in the front axle. The car will have a little rake when all is said and done. I'm learning as well. This is my first ground up build, so I want to get as much out of it as I can. Been studying up all the build threads on here and staring at pictures a lot and I like the look of the upsweep on Bob Sr's roadster. The upsweep really contributes a lot to the stance.


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Here's a couple shots of Bob Sr's roadster as well as a side shot of Evel's Model A coupe..





I'm not sure whether the T in the next picture has an upsweep but it looks like it?



Anyways.. Some source material here.

 

what a great build so far, very nice.

 

theres only one thing i never liked about these cars and you fixed it perfectly when you sectioned it in, friggin awesome. keep it up!

 

Thanks guys! Here's an update..

Today, I found the balls to cut up a perfectly good Model A frame. But I'm pleased with progress.. Having 2 angle-finders come in really handy when you want everything to be geometrically correct. Those math classes in high school are finally paying off.

The point of no return.



I had my brother, Andrew, who weights just a smidge under me come in and stand on the brace and center crossmember while the front crossmember was resting on a couple of 2x4's and I laid on my side checking and rechecking the angles on the frame and the front rails.. 5 degrees on each side. I tacked the top while my brother stood on it to secure it in the right place. After I had everything tacked up, I took the rest of this on my own, taking time in between welding to let everything cool down and making sure I got full penetration. I also drilled a hole at the bottom of the cut and plug welded it in to eliminate any possibilities of cracks happening. I cleaned the metal as much as I could and beveled the sides to get proper welding penetration as well as checking and rechecking the angles on the angle finders.. This may be my first build-up but I'm making sure everything is done right. So far, so good.



You can see the upsweep better in the next picture. I'm glad with how it turned out.




I plan to come back to these areas and clean to the sides of where the cut was some more, spray some weld-through primer on it and weld fishplates over it on the inside of the frame rail for some extra insurance. I also plan to box the entire frame but that'll come after I get the center crossmember in and the motor and transmission mounted. I'm also planning on Z'ing the back of the frame but haven't decided on how much just yet. I have some 2x4 tube steel from the dark ages of when I was going to build.. Ah.. The past is the past, no need to bring that up. I haven't decided how much yet but I want it to have a slight rake that sits just above the scrub line. The upsweep is really going to accentuate the stance with the plans I have in my head.

However, my goal is to have a roller by January 18 when the Spring semester starts again, so the center crossmember, motor, and transmission won't be a priority until after it can roll on its own. It'll probably roll on bare wheels until I find 3 more mint steel wheels to chrome and mount new tires to. I have one 16x4.5 wheel but need one more 4.5 as well as two 4-inch wheels. I'll be going on the hunt for those after school ends. After the second week of December, college will be out until January 18, so that gives me about a month of free time to get the frame done and out of the way, then the fun stuff can begin.

I should also note, I haven't gone back and fixed the front crossmember yet. I plan to.

Thanks guys.

 

are you going to go ahead and pie cut the front of the frame as well now? doing the 5 up that you just did and then a 5 down near the cross member puts it back to 'level'. though i suppose if your going to be doing some front cross member surgery anyways you could rotate it then.

i suppose at that point its an issue of aesthetics, where you want the horns to land in relation to the grill and what not

looking good

 

Yeah, I plan to pie cut just behind the front crossmember and angle it back down 5 degrees to get it back to the proper angle. I really dig the look of the frame horns at the front. Since I plan to channel the body 4 inches, the grille shell will have to be cut up to fit at the front along with the height change in the upsweep so it's even with the cowl. I should also be getting hood sides soon. That's going to be an interesting challenge to tackle.

I won't be able to work on the A until the end of next week or so though.. Finals at college and everything.

Thanks, man.

 

Its comming along nicely man , keep up the great work , i wish i would have check this out earlier.

 

Thanks man. No such thing as being too late to check out a build thread. I can't wait to get cracking on this as soon as school's out though. Just over a week left.


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looking forward to seeing your winter break progress hopefully ill have mine back rolling over that period of time ......and then ill tear the front suspension out and be back on stands haha

 

this is a very inspirational thread! i totally dig your outlook and direction with this car, i like where it is headed.

i browsed the 9 pages and wasnt sure if someone has mentioned it or not, but if you havent had any luck getting that broken bolt out of your hinge, try taking a nut that is oversize, like 7/16" or so, and hold it over the broken bolt so you can weld whats left of the bolt to the inside of the nut, use a good amount of heat, it will cause the bolt to expand, and once it cools down you can try twisting the nut (which is now welded to the bolt) out. it may take a few tries but this has always worked for me.

cant wait to see more progress.

 

Cool build. I would have left it a sport coupe. Thats the only style I havent owned that I want to. Cant wait to see the finished product.

 

Thanks, man! I would have done that but the part that broke off isn't anywhere close enough to the surface to attempt that. It's maybe an eighth of an inch down into the hole. I haven't paid any attention to that lately but when I get back to it, I think I'll try to drill a slightly bigger hole down the middle of the hole of the broken part and try to use an extractor bit. If that doesn't work, then it's all right as I have a few others in storage that I'll go and pull out.

I would have had I found this forum earlier. I had never thought about leaving it as is with maybe a chop. To my newbie mind at the time, it was either make it a coupe or make it a roadster.. I saw this blue sports coupe with a flathead and 5-speed that had a pretty nice chop to it without any top on it. I would have done it that way but I had already cut up the back and moved it forward. I do have another Sports coupe but I've been thinking about maybe that will need to be sold to fund this build.. I'll explain in a bit.

 

Hats off to you Matt. I really appreciate you sharing the successes and challenges on your first build. My direction in hot rodding changed significantly after I stumbled upon the HAMB.

I only made it through a portion of the build (just found your thread) but it's very enjoyable to follow along, and read the narrative. Doing an "A" is on my bucket list...keep going!

 

Update: Thoughts, Questions, Opinions..

So, I'm about to start making a redneck-built frame jig out of a trailer frame tomorrow so I can mock everything up on it. It's slightly longer than the frame but just about as wide as the frame and has thick wall square tubing and all the tubing are welded entirely around where they come into contact so it seems sturdy enough to me. I plan to tack the frame onto it at ride height which should be around 7 inches at the cowl with a slight rake. The only issue I see are the spindles and rear hubs will stick out past the frame jig but my thought is I can get the frame all welded up on the frame jig, k or x member and finally boxing plates then I can mount the front and rear axle on it then bolt the wheels on and put it on the ground after all is said and done. The tires and wheels will be pretty much identical to Bass' so I hope he doesn't mind me copying that.. I hate to copy other people's ideas but those wheels and tires look perfectly proportional to me. Plans are for Firestones 7.00x16 in the back on 16x4.5s and 4.50/4.75x16 in the front on 16x4s.

I've realized that there is a high possibility that my frame won't be an official roller by January 18. However, I'm dead set on getting the front upsweep finished, the rear Z finished which will be 7 inches, fishplates welded on front and back, and at least part of the boxing plates finished. If I plan to get the front axle dropped, tires, and all the wheels I need before January, then I'll have to sell the other Sports Coupe to finance all of those. I do have one 16x4.5 wheel that's chrome-worthy and two centers as well which I separated from their heavily pitted and rusted rims last night. I bought a mint 16x4 wheel from a HAMBer on here but it looks like either USPS has lost it or it's taking its time getting here with the holiday season upon us. So I need a mint 16x4.5 rim and 16x4 rim to go with those centers. I used my Model A book to make a stock frame at stock height in Adobe Illustrator using a 130 by 60 inch document, just to get everything to scale, and "fabricated" my own frame in AI, complete with the 5 degree upsweep and 7 inch Z in the back, making sure the rear crossmember stays in its relatively stock location.




I also got the Offy adapter off another HAMBer. Thanks, corndog! So it's official.. I plan to run a '39 Ford 3-speed. I have questions as to the closed driveshaft however.



Here are some questions I have..

1. There are two bolt holes that are cracked on the transmission end of the Offy adapter so those will need to be repaired as well. Any idea how to do that?

2. I realize that when I mock up the motor/trans on the frame with the rear axle mounted, then I'll answer this question myself but I would like to know the answer to this question as a precaution. If I go with a closed driveshaft and the angle of the rear axle is slightly downward to compensate for transmission location, then is there a way to block off the rear axle from the torque tube so the rear axle fluid doesn't run down the tube without affecting the inner driveshaft?

My thought is if that isn't possible, then I might have to raise the motor and transmission up to get the angle of the torque tube just above level to keep the rear end fluid where it belongs.. Or as much as I dislike the idea, convert it to open drive.

However, I've been tackling the details and making a more detailed "Parts to Get" list that I'll post up and update as the build progresses. Here's a rough list to give you guys a general idea. Of course, I can't buy them all at once, so it'll be a slow process getting everything I want. There are still some decisions to be made but for the most part, I have a much clearer idea of what I want in my A build.



Thanks for all the feedback, guys.

 

Thanks, man! The HAMB sure is a great place. I don't think I would have ever saw how ever-so-important the smallest of details are had I never got on here. As well as what hot rods really were like back in the day.. It's like I had been living under a rock all these years.

I'd like to think it was at least a period-correct rock.

 

The good thing is, if it weren't a period-correct rock, everyone would point it out in a hurry! Haha

 

You'll want to go ahead and separate all the centers from the hoops when you get a complete set to plate them. If you don't they wont get plated in those little tight spots and will eventually get some surface rust. I've seen pictures of chrome plated Ford wheels from the late '40s so don't feel like you're copying a new idea.

It's exciting to see the plans for this thing, you're doing a hell of a job for your first real build. You better take it easy with that '39 box behind a SBC!

 

i have been sucessfull welding nuts onto broken off bolts that are below the surface, its not easy but doable. hopefully the extractor bit works for you though. keep up the good work, i cant wait to see this thing come together!

 

I'm excited for you Matt. You have an entire Christmas break to get a TON done! I need to give you a call next time I'm in Amarillo, I gotta see this thing.

 

to fix your adapter, its hard to say without looking at it but im guessing it could be carefully ground out with a dremel along the crack line, preferably using a carbide bit, then tig welded, and redrilled using the transmission as a guideline? maybe a heli-coil also? this is just a method i have used in the past to fix worn out holes or broken cast aluminum parts.

as for the torque tube running downhill, im not sure, thats a good question on the oil flow, cause i know i have seen a handfull of severely channeled and "Z'ed" cars running closed driveline. like this one,



for some reason i cant find the build pics anymore where it showed the torque tube running downhill towards the tranny, but you get the idea. sorry if this isnt much help.

btw, i like that adobe illustration you made. real cool.

 

Very true.

I don't plan to do any reckless driving.. Much.. I definitely don't want to test the strength of the '39 but from what I've read, they've held up well over the years during drag races, dirt track racing, etc. I won't be doing any of those though. We'll see how that goes.

Anytime! Let me know ahead of time as I like to clean the garage beforehand..

I'll get some pictures of the cracks up soon. Mainly they're just cracks through where the bolt holes are. Easily accessible with a Dremel which I have but I don't own a TIG unit.. Of course, I'm no mechanic so I won't try anything yet. I'll figure it out when I get to that fork in the road.

That's one of my favorite roadsters and I didn't know that. I have tons of favorite cars and basically no knowledge of some of them. I think I'll start a thread to try and find out more about this one or "uphill" torque tubes in general.

Thanks.

 

just found your thread....nice job

I will be saving this one

 

Here's a long overdue update on Project Mattitude:

I haven't gotten much done. Or haven't been able to lately because of unfolding events. I did get to work for the last couple days however, so here's what's happened.

First, something else much more important to me came up. I finally got the chance to go to my dad's friend's shop to get my dad's stuff. As some of you guys know, my dad was killed out front of this shop by a drunk driver back in December of 2009. This shop belongs to his friend who's a truck driver which meant he was almost never in town. Well, the stars aligned and both our schedules worked out to where I could go in and take some stuff home that I needed and at least start boxing everything up for when we move all the stuff later. I brought home my dad's chop saw, small torch, tube steel, a lot of parts and smaller tools. Needless to say, my garage is much more cramped but I'm able to work with it. I did spend some time on making the redneck-built frame jig out of a trailer frame.

But before that happened my brother totaled his truck.



No one was hurt, thank God, just a couple bruised egos. What happened was he was coming into the parking lot off the street, facing east in the morning so the sun was in his eyes. The woman in the van was cutting through the parking lot and was driving from my brother's right side. The woman did not stop. Legally, she had to yield to my brother since he had just come off the street and she was heading out of the parking lot using the same exit. My brother had the right of way, however, he came in at an angle as opposed to straight so the insurance put the accident as my brother's fault. He would have stopped but the sun was in his eyes and didn't see the woman.

In the end, the truck's totaled, no one's hurt, so we moved on. Since that happened, I've been helping him out as much as I can, mainly acting as his taxi just like the old days when he didn't have his license and my parents put mine to use. Yeaahh.. Good old days.

Now I was able to put a couple full days in work and got the frame jig made. I'm pretty stinkin' proud of myself that I got the frame jig all level and all 8 legs touch the ground.



I just need to tack the frame to the jig and start on overthinking the rear Z. I figure I'll mark the center of the crossmember onto the jig, cut the rear part of the frame off, put the rear axle where it should go matching the center of the axle to the center marked on the jig. Then I'll put the rear spring on the axle, put the crossmember where it should be and connect the two. I'm aware that the spring will not be under load so I'll be sure to account for that.



I also headed out of town to OKC for a small wrestling tournament last weekend (Old-Timers) and took advantage of that to run up to Tulsa, meet 3WLarry and buy a nice '39 Ford 3-speed from him.





Larry was pretty generous and patient with me being deaf and my friend interpreting. My friend had no clue what Larry was talking about..

"Oh, a Weiand for a Flathead?"
"Flatend?"
"Yeah, Flathead."
"Flatend?"

Maybe from now on I should bring a list of terminology for all my interpreters. Haha. Larry was pretty cool about it regardless. Thanks Larry!

So this is where I'm at right now. I still have a couple days to work before school starts again on Wednesday so it'll be nothing but garage time for me.


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Glad to see you updating the thread, I look forward to see some progress pics!

 

Thanks! A lot's happened since you were over here. You missed out on all the excitement.

Hit me up next time you're in the neighborhood.

Today, I struggled with getting the lacquer off the frame today so I could tack it to the frame jig.. When I weld onto it, the weld just sits on top of it and doesn't burn into the metal itself. Then again, I do need to buy some new grinding discs and flap wheels..

Would paint thinner work? Any kind of chemical that takes the lacquer off and leaves a clean surface to weld to?

I'll be taking advantage of the search function in a little bit.

 

So far nice build I like the look you are going for.

Frenchy

 

Nice build goin on here!! Keep it up man! Giving me more motorvation!

 

College started again. As it turns out, I only have to show up to school 2 days out of the week so that means I have more time to put toward the A than I initially expected. No complains here.

Hood sides showed up this week from Lo C Dan which are in perfect condition for what I have in mind! Since a friend wanted to take a picture of me with the car for a book project for her class, I took advantage of that to put the body back on the frame and clamp the hood sides and grille together. As expected, the hood sides don't fit in and will have to be modified to fit the upsweep and post-channel as does the grille shell. It'll look great regardless.





While waiting for my friend to show up, I spent some time with the late '40's banjo rear end taking it apart to see why one side of the axle was stuck. As it turned out, something inside leaked (brake fluid, I think) and the shoes absorbed it and basically rusted the drum to it. I pulled the drum off, cleaned it up, and spun the axles around and it works just fine. There's some pitting on both ends of the axle pictured below. It's a bad picture so in a little I'll go get another. Would that be a problem? I'm still unsure whether I'll use the orange one or another one I have in storage which is supposedly a '48 Mercury axle. I need to look into that.



I also finally got the frame tacked to the redneck-built frame jig. stood up on it and jumped a little to see if any of the tacks broke. None did. Sweet.



In my free time, I usually think this build throughly. Well, more than just my free time. Haha. I'd like to find a set of smooth hubcaps to use like the Dal Porto roadster. Hot rods back then usually always had hubcaps on them and it was very unusual to see one without 'caps unless it was for racing. I can also just run them sans 'caps whenever I feel like it and pop them back on when I want them.



And the paint scheme. I know I'm a long ways from needing to decide on that. I told you. I spend a lot of time dreaming about this thing. I already have the colors picked out and know what I'll be using for the interior even. I had wanted to do a single color body with a different color dash and firewall. I did however think about maybe including a Von Dutch flame job similar to the Paul Sylvia Ardun T so that's still up for debate.



In a while, I'll go and update my parts checklist and put it up on here.


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