I sold my business after 25 years of building hotrods and having a retail store and living upstairs! I can honestly say been good times and bad times ! Do I miss it yes but don't miss all the issues of running a business ! You are the one that is going to be doing everthing from cleaning the toilets to putting out the garbage ! Just remember paper work is very timely amd important thing that can not be put off ! Number one reason for people failing !! I'd work the retail 8 hours then go in the back and work the rest of the 6 to 8 hours ! Because during the day with phone ringing and people coming in , you can't give 100% to the job your doing !Other than that work 10 to 14 hours a day and you'll have fun !! The more you do and don't put off till tomorrow you will have the money in your pocket because time does not stop and you can't make it back up ! Simple and plain !! Owning the building & sold it is what able me to retire at 53! Just cashed out with the business and got my money back !!
I started my shop {not a car shop, its a machine shop} in 1985. I've never regretted it for one minute. Just get it straight in your mind there will be some very long hours and some jobs that beat your ass. Your life will revolve around your shop, not the other way around. You need to go to the bank tomorrow and get started.
Skrayp, When you mention that you don't know if the EPA (and other zoning stuff) "would be grandfathered in"... VERIFY everything, and get it in writing if at all possible. These darn counties and citys are treacherous sometimes on that stuff. Also beware of the contaminated ground from oils, fuels, etc. if the place was a previous automotive (or motorcycle) establishment. Again...VERIFY. I speak from experience on this. JG
Three words... GO FOR IT! I've been self employed since '78 in a little hick town (that I wouldn't trade for anything) but everyone said "Don't do it, you'll starve to death..." Well, I haven't missed a meal yet, and if we don't take on another job, we've got 2 years of work in the shop right now. I turn down at least one high $$$ job every month, even in this economy. Be realistic about your goals, do every job with excellence and treat people fair... you'll be fine.
We here in dallas have lost 4 well funded shops in the last few years ,and these guys were considered smart ,one gave up a 6 figure job cause he thought how hard could this be lol. My shops been around since 89 .good luck
My shop is going belly up. Like others said you will be making your money off of peoples play money. Be prepared to work 100 hours to make 40. Prepare to devote your life and every waking min. to it. As for living where you work as i do. Its a double edged sword. Its pretty tough to get away. Prepare to put all your projects aside. To me its not worth it. I would invest in something that people need. Im going back to collecting my check from someone else. There is alot more involved and expenses that you would ever imagine.
Biggest problem most of us tradesman have is we are not great businessmen. If you could find a guy to run the business end and make out the work orders and MAKE SURE that every hour is paid for by someone at a rate high enough to ensure profitable operation without being unfair then you will be successful The work is out there and buying in at the bottom is always a good plan. You should have about a years living expenses saved and you have to be able to keep regular hours. That means starting on time and just as important Quitting on time. You need to have a commercial visa mastercard etc account set up so people can pay you cash or credit card. That will reduce your bad recievables to almost nothing . The percentage the credit card compaies take will mean nothing compared to the peace of mind of never having trouble getting paid. You need to make sure you give NO credit. That is what visa and mastercard are for. You need from the git go to have a book keeper who will do you books for you once a month. Usually cost is equivalent to 1 or 2 hour shop labour and removes the biggest headache to being in business, Bookwork. These are things I learned the hardway and after i did i was much more successful Remember your skills are as a tradesman. and craftsman. If they are worth anything they are worth enough to allow you to afford a book keeper and such. If you follow these guidelines you will be successful If not you will be just another tired broke hard working highly skilled dude who wonders why life is so hard everyday. Easy now, i am trying to help you . I been there the first time. It was no fun and a lot of hard work. The second time I got a lot more of it right and it was fun. I learned it from someone else who took the time to explain to me that I could earn enough the first two hours every Monday morning to cover my book keeping expenses. Best advice i ever got. Charge the current rates. Dont give your work away. And all the best I wish you great success. Don D Oh yeah and you need to shoot every third equipment salesman just on principle. It isnt YOUR profit they are trying to improve!
After you have checked with your city on what can be done in this shop and everything checks out ok including soil testing.Very important. I myself would buy it if the price is right.I would continue to work for some one else and run that shop on the side.Health Insurance is alot of money every month.You will have that if you stay with your current employer. Then try it like that for a year or so.That way you will have a nice investment,A place to live,And the shop of your dreams. If it survives and you are real busy.Then and only then should you ever quit your real job. I have owned a business and have run very repitable repair shops in my life.Its not easy on you and it can really screw stuff up at home with the old lady also. At you age this is the time to do it.Just remember that you need a good plan and working capital and lots of it to start.If you dont have both.Dont even think about it. Good luck and get to the bank.
Dolmetsch is right, not only do you need to find employee(s) but you will want a book keeper, life will become a lot easier. You should have at least one employee, whether they work in the shop or do the office work is up to you. If you plan to do the office work on your own then you need an employee that can work in the shop and but out the same if not better quality work than you. The biggest thing that most people overlook is that the office work will take up your entire day which leaves you trying to play catch up every evening. My other advice is make sure you have all of the equipment and tools you will need before you start, things like a good welder, workbenches, good compressor, drill press, etc. etc. etc. These are going to eat up a lot of money if you still need to buy them. Also, you NEED enough CASH (your hard earned green, not borrowed money) to pay the bills for at least 6 months, this is what will keep you afloat through the first year, you will have months when the bills add up to more than you made. All that I can say is good luck and make damn sure you plan for the extreme worst case scenario.
you will always be able to make some money from bodywork, but it is sometimes close to subsiestance living will you be able to pay for the building from other money other than what you earn?? you could rent some space out, can have problems do you have a bunch of friends who will pay you to work on their cars and pay extra because they know you?? you can let them help do you have a couple key friends who will help you go out and sell jobs to other people?? I was a bondo man for 18 years and had some experiences, and a lot of them bad and things are harder now than in 1972 when i got my first bigger shop and fell on my face and had to work construction to pay off loans finished college and got 5 men and worked day and nite got paint contracts,had people selling boat show work for me by the hour and things got pretty good, its not a easy road to hoe
I owned a shop for eight years and it was the best thing I ever did. If you don;t do it - you will regret it. Like others I had a regular job at the same time to get things started. I would check with the town that the building is in and see what the city says the building needs to get it up to code due to it's age. My last building, we had to invest a substantial amount of money to get the building up to code. Not to scare you, just been there and done that with an older building. Perfect set up with living quarters. I would do it all over again. I learned alot, made a lot of friends and yes the money was good once I was established. The trick is starting out small and get established. Don't blow to much money up front and get just what you need. What ever you do - DO NOT take on any investors or others that may think they can tell you how to run your business. Keep it all your own. Once you get planted and provide a good service, the word will spread. I had a 36 car back log at our high point and could not hire enough people to get the back log down, but people waited. Which brings me to the biggest problem of any business - employees. They can be the biggest pain in the ass as you grow, but at some point you will have to face it. I kept my guys on commission and more work got done that way. As soon as a couple of them went to salary, the work output went to half of what it was. So back to commission it was. They made good money as long as they came in ready to work. I recently sold my company and the economy had no effect on the business or it's sale. Good Luck
Wow...starting a shop...I think EVERY one who has any interest in cars/hotrods has had this thought! I know I sure do...everyday! What I find is SAD is the days of the speed shops have been killed by the MEGA-ONLINE parts houses (Summit, Jegs, Speedway....ect). For me..I LOVE dealing with people. I'd love to have a real speed shop like I use to go to in the 80's....None left in my area..I really have to blame the technology of the internet and the speed shops not adapting to the "modern" cars such as imports. I'll also admit...it's nice to sit home here on a Sunday night in front of the fireplace and order parts that "I" know "I" want and be done with it. 2-3 days later parts are sitting in front of my garage..Easy and most often less in price than a local source. There are a couple "AUTOMOTIVE SPECIALTY" shops ....but they never have anything in stock, the kids behind the counter don't have a clue on anything...just an awkword experience nowadays. The problem I see is that we want to turn something we really enjoy into a business venture...but what do we really enjoy??? We enjoy walking out into the shop and getting our hands dirty on that old model A project..maybe researching the parts needed, making up a specialty part....ect.... Now Lets shed a little more light on running you own show.... .... Just as we get to work on this customers MODEL A project the phone rings, a customer walks in, a salesman come in, Mailman stops in to drop off todays bills and wants to chat for 15 minutes, the UPS man does the same. Now (just like we use to do)...the local benchracers come by the shop with coffee and pull up a few stools and 3 hours later they take off....before you know it it's 6pm and you got nothing done. Now you can lock the shop door, take the phone off the hook and get to work on that customers car...but wait...you also have paperwprk you need to do. Phone calls you need to place, parts orders that need to be submitted....What I'm getting at here is that a ONE MAN SHOW is very hard to do. More so in our industry where projects takes weeks and months to complete..not just a days work. Can you afford a good shop hand to take some of the burden off you??? Can you even find such a person that is dedicated to your customers that way YOU want him to be?? Will this guy try to "STEAL" busness from you in order to open his own shop?? Soooo many things to consider when jumping into any business. I'm sure the end result when you are 85 sitting on the front porch of the retirment home rocking back and forth..you can at least say you gave it great shot (wether succesful or not). HAve you condisered a business partner??? ...Granted Profits would have to be split...but so would everything else! Want to take a week off to go on a vacation?....If you are running the show alone...the business shuts down for that week and makes nothing...with a partner...profits still roll in when either one of you take a week off to spend time with your family. Just another option to consider. My suggestion for you would be to continue to work for a employer. Get a small garage/shop and start on a project of your own. Make it the best you can. Buy tools and shop equipment while getting a weekly paycheck. Get your finished project car out to car shows and get your name exposed and let people know this is what you do. Get some clientel lined up and build upon that. Nothing worse that dropping tens of thousand of dollars on a shop and no customers to support it. I do say GO FOR IT...But do it in PLANNED STAGES...That's what I'm doing!
Here in Vegas the hi end shops have a waiting list while the import modifiers are shutting up shops. Find the right market for your area and start booking work .
If the price is right, buy it and consider it your home. Keep working for others to pay your bills and take on work from good people. You can work by yourself on weekends and nights to build your cash, get a feel for how well you like it and then after a couple of years, make a decision to go full time. Worst case scenario...if you bought it right, you might be able to sell it for a profit or at least have lived there free. Do it
Out of every 8 hour day be prepared to get 1-2 hrs actual work done. Like mentioned above the phone rings, someone comes in wanting something small you make $2 on it and it takes 1/2 hour for them to figure out if they want it or not. But other days are more rewarding big jobs come in or someone comes in with praise about a car they have seen that you built etc. I started in 2003 did it on the side from 95-03 and we are still going strong. Upgrading buildings in the short future from 1400 sqft to over 11,000!. It takes alot of work alot of hours and alot of work and people skills. Josh
You've gotten a ton of good responses above , All I'll add is to incoporate your business by getting forms on internet or using an attorney(250.00 to 350.00) , Just in case things get ugly , it can protect you a bit. Also , as mentioned , don't be afraid to take side work. It keeps the lights on. I own a fiberglass manufacturing shop and some of my "gimmee" jobs have created excellent returns down the road when the customer had more money (or a friend with money ) . Purchasing agents are my best buddies. I can make them look good or bad and it pays off , especially when they move to a new company and I get a new account. Good luck with you're future endeavors.
Wow, I can't believe all the good responses I have gotten. Pretty much everything that has been said has crossed my mind at one point or another. I think taking a business class will help me a lot. I took an entrepreneurship class back in JVS but that was a long time ago. Come to think of it, that's how long I've been watching this property. As far as a business plan, well, I think the best think would be to just get the place, move in and continue to work my 40 hours at the body shop. Equipment? I've spent the last decade collecting tools and equipment. I pretty much have everything but a garage...except for lifts and a frame jig and some metalworking stuff. And you gotta have a garage before you get that stuff. So here's phase one: aquire the property and get settled in. Do private work on the side, possibly rent the showroom and maybe a garage or two (there are 3 total) I could see this lasting 3-4 years. I would like to have completed a few personal projects and enough customer cars to gain some recognition. I would hope to have maybe one or two people that could give me some relief from time to time. Phase 2: Venture into the parts business. Utilize the showroom to sell speed equipment,apparel, and other miscellaneous components. It depends on who is still around locally. Here in Springfield we already have Midwest Early Ford, Springfield Street Rod ( I think) and last but certainly not least Lobecks (he still has the shop in Cleveland too) I would probably market and sell though the internet versus mail order. I know some IT guys that could help me out. By this time I would have to quit my full time job. Hopefully I would already have before this step. Phase three: Make it or Break it time. I should have a full crew by now. I should be booked solid and busting ass. A full service, one stop shop for building, restoring, and dealing in special interest automobiles, with a decent size parts business, dealing locally and nationwide. I'm sure I'm missing something or have one or two things out of order. I feel, that the most important thing to do is to take Some sort of leap forward. I need to stick my neck out and at least try to get the place. It is way too big for me right now. But, each building is on its own separate meter. So renting sections out would be a lot easier. By the time I get going, it might be damn near too small for me. But in the mean time it should be perfect. The best I can tell, the zoning is a go. In fact I think its over qualified. The price...well......I never imagined myself dropping 300 grand on something. I will definately offer less. Plus, I don't even no if the bank would take me seriously. As embarassing as it is to say....no, I have absolutely no capital. But, like 29 Nash said, I thought that's what business loans were for. I don't plan on going public with the place for at least two years or maybe more. Until I learn more about what its gonna take to go full bore I will only do private work. Basically, I'm gonna get the place and sit on it for a while. As long as I can make the mortgage and insurance I can work out of the smallest part and still afford the utilities. As the opportunities to grow arise, I'll take advantage of them. At this point everything is up in the air. I've never checked the place out yet,only driven past it everyday for the past few weeks. I will be talking to the realtors this week to feel them out on a price and to see if its what I really want, or a dump. If I like it I will start talking to the banks. I want to thank every one of you for giving me your input. Not one bad ounce of advice, I agree with it all. If I don't try , I'm never gonna stop thinking about it. So, I'm going to. I might not have eveything it takes yet. But, I'm a fast learner and I've worked my ass off all my life, so I'm no stranger to hard work. It's time I start doing what I said I was gonna do so many years ago, but let people talk me out of it. I'll keep you guys posted.
I may be biased because I have always been self-employed in either the aircraft or car business all my life...a long damn time. The economy has, as others have stated, always had ups and downs. I would go for it as long as you don't depend on the first six or so months to put food on your table. In the beginning it MAY be a bit slow. Set up the shop nice and clean, hospital clean, have a grand opening over two weekends. I always keep ALL Saturday mornings open for shooting the bull with coffee and dounts. That way you get to know who are tire kickers and who are real rodders. And, they get to know you. I wish you all very good fortune. And let us know how it's going. Bill flatheadguy@yahoo.com
When you go to get your loan.Tell them you are going to use it as a place of residence.It will be easier to get the loan.There arent a lot of banks that are going to give you a loan for a business right now.With out a ton of collateral to cover it. Good luck and keep us posted.
Go for it. Great responses here. I'll add: There really is never a good time , just the present time. If your really on the fence, work on this side & tally up your income vs proposed investment of a building. ( i've always viewed my building as forced savings ) This is a good market to buy in. Plan on offering a service/ product as a kind of 'regular peanut butter/ & jelly- consistent & always available. FYI , I always kept a few low paying jobs- but they were monthly, as my customers success grew so did mine. ( that $100.oo per month job x 1 year x 20 or more years = $$$$$. Talent will never go out of style. Good Luck. To be young again... -41-
Some serious questions... 1. Do you have one year's living expenses in the bank? This would include lease, utilities, food, etc. If yes, go for it. If no, save some more. 2. Have you analysed the financials of the situation? Are you going to make any money by yourself? 3. Do you have a business plan? The biggest issue for new businesses is inadequate start up capital. Have enough in the bank or don't waste your time right now. Better to wait for success than be assured of failure due to no money. And, the no money issue creates future credit and financial problems that people spend many years getting over. Your future spouse won't be interested in living for years with financial issues hanging over her head when she had nothing to do with it. Now, if you can get over those hurdles, go for it. Personally, I've got the cash to make the year but I'm still not leaving my full time job (with a very nice salary and benefits) at this time. I'll wait a bit, be more patient and keep doing it on the side until my customer base is strong enough to support the jump.
Life goes in cycles. Exploring, living a dream is worth more to me than permanent security. First of all you might drop dead tomorrow. If you have never been broke and hungry, you haven't lived. If you have never been so cold you thought you might not live through it, then you don't know enough to appreciate what comfort is. Don't jump in blind, but don't postpone your dreams either. Start off by following the guidelines, a business plan etc. But if that don't work out then start a business without a plan. What can you lose? Go for it. If it don't work out, go back to punching the clock again. To avoid failure for the fear of failure is a failure in and of itself.
I can go on forever on this, but I'll try not to. It would help if you did finish something of your own to show the kind of work you're capable of. I didn't get the vibe from your post that you've got some customer "base" already. So, you might sub-divide this new shop and rent out some space. Living there sure cuts down costs, and sounds like FUN. Also, this is the most important thing-GET SHIT DONE. Too many shops around here take in jobs and let em sit in the corner, pissing off the customer. I get stuff done right away at my shop. I don't take in any work unless I intend to work on it the next day. If it's a big job, get 1/2 the money up front, BUT DON'T SPEND IT UNLESS YOU WORKED FOR IT! Then maybe 1/2 way through the job get another 1/4, and the balance on completion. I tell my customers, I'll be your mechainc, but I won't be your BANK.
The EPA bullshit and possiblr zoning issues would have me worried. The zoning issues are easy to check out but put some type of wording in the agreement of sale that you can run away if anything is found in the ground. I had 6 grand tied up in drilling holes and testing dirt just to find out I really wanted no parts of it. I don't know about your state but here clean ups are very, very expensive and once you bought it , all the problems are yours to take care of.
Somewhat of an update. I did go and look at the place, and I got to see everything but the living quarters, because someone lives there. I still like the place, but after trying to get a banker to talk to me I just kinda forgot about it. Since then, the owner re-opened part of the place for bike repair. It's been two years since then, and it went off the market for a while and is now re listed under a new realtor for exactly 2/3 of what he wanted for it back then! This has gotten the wheels turning again. I gotta say, I have been a miserable SOB for a long time. I have a dead end job. Its health-hazardous, I have no health benefits, boss man set us up for 401K last year and just told us he's cancelling it. We can't keep enough work to keep him in the office, but when we are swamped he wants to come back and help instead of doing his duty as an owner/boss. I can't tell him what to do, its his place, not mine. I did cuss him out in front of his mom once lol (not exactly proud of that one). Mom lost her job this spring and she's living with me now. I'm too old for this. I've wasted 8 years working a job that has never really challenged me to be better at what I do, except for keep my mouth shut, become complacent (AKA fat and lazy), and fix metal on hondas without ripping it like tissue paper. I'm the best damn bodyman around here but nobody cares except the insurance adjusters that know what I'm capable of. If they had their way we'd get paid what a fry cook makes at Mc D's lol. I know, cry me a river..... I opened a fortune cookie the other day. It read " If you keep doing what you've always done, you'll keep getting what you've always gotten". Touche. I guess its time to try again. Merry Christmas everyone!
I feel ya man, been on my own since April fools day '97. Except for a divorce in 2000 I've done ok. I have tried to keep it simple and concentrated on being debt-free. I have 3000 sq ft and would LOVE 10k. BUT, Being a little cramped is the way to go. The extra cost of more space makes you have to work even harder. peace
It may be time to move forward. I owned and operated an OT lab supply business for two years and finally had to give it up because I ran out of money to live off of while the business grew. One mistake I made was listening to non-experienced people tell me that I needed to go buy a bunch of first class stuff to get the business going. If and when I take another stab at it, I'll buy used equipment and watch every single penny like it's my last. Another thing I learned was not to incur any monthly expenses until there was incoming sales margin to support it. Good luck.
Wise words!! I always buy used. The used equipment holds it's value, and if you take your time building the shop up and look for deals you can build the shop up debt free. I've been working on diesel trucks for the last 15 years. In that time I've been building my shop and adding equipment. Find a small shop and start out part time. It's hard working a job you hate, but it's easier if you know it's supporting your living while you work in your own shop investing the prifits buying equipment. It's not easy starting up, and it's not easy keeping a rod shop going. Sounds like your a good bodyman. Nothing wrong with doing insurance jobs and using the hotrods for filler work or your personal hobby.....
well more cheep advice , find a way to earn some $$ and leave the banker out, they will string you along but do they want to take a risk work some where else too to get the start up and bldg $$ you cant start with a debt load i had to close up for 3 years and work as a heavy equipt mech for $5 a hour and paid off 2 divorces and my shop loans and bought a house and paid for it all, I still cuss that company but they paid my way to economic freedom so I could go back into business and in the current times i coud not even thini of running my shop as a business to live off I go to work most days and work on 6 show cars full time and pay the shop bills , and buy a ton of parts , but the income is from retirement
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