Smokey Yunick vs. Grumpy Jenkins

Smokey Yunick vs. Grumpy Jenkins?

Two legendary builders, racers, and inventors, which one was the best?

 

Can't really compare them but Smokey's uncommonly innovative talent was astounding. Two different men, two different ways of thinking, both brilliant.

 

Smokey's book was phenomenal......I definitely think he left a bigger mark on the automotive landscape

 

Benzine, Smokeys pipe is a sign of intelligence and sofistication.He used his fistications quite often when talking to tech inspectors. Smokey was rude and crude but more inventive. He be THE MAN. read his books, there a laugh/ page.

 

Smokey, by making "non-stock" body sizes and custom panels for so-called STOCK cars, started what NASCAR has become today, which is, no longer STOCK car racing.
He was a genious for doing it in the first place but like Dr. Frankenstein, he invented a monster.
(Yea, I know, they don't, or at least rarely call it STOCK car racing any more...)

ON the other hand, I met some of the Jenkins clan and they were nice people so I voted for Grumpy, high school popularity style...

 

Pretty silly question inmy opinion. Are we talking drag racing or round track?
Kind of like apples to oranges....

 

I'm with ZMAN on this one but I like oranges, so Smokey is the man. I belive he made a far greater contribution to automobiles in general.

 

I liked Smokey and the Bandit, but Grumpy Old Men was better. Oh, nevermind....


Mutt

 

The Grump was and still is winning races long after Smokey gave it up.

 

I'm kinda with zman on this one. It's hard to compare the two, they plied their trade in different environments. There is no question that Smokey has made some great contributions to the automotive world and it's been said that a good portion of the NASCAR rule book is a direct result of his involvement in the sport. Jenkins on the other hand was a thinker and innovator in the drag racing world where raw short term max horsepower rules the day.

We (the team I raced on, Shaker Engineering) used ot talk to him all the time in the 60's when we had cars that were in direct competition with cars he helped prepare or built engines for. he was one of those individuals who definitly thought "outside the box" in many areas and as a result on race day he would more times than not show you the way to the finish line. He was a pleasure to talk to but you had to get him away from the hectic invironment of the race track to really know the man. The label "Grumpy Genkins" was a result of being bothered at the track while trying to pull the last ounce of power from whatever combination he was currently occupied by and having people walk up to him and try to engage him in conversation or asking questions about their own cars, asking him to read plugs, etc. The result was for him to be short and "grumpy" with you. Get him away from that scene and he was entirely different. His contributions to Chevrolet horsepower is hard to measure but again in a different application from Smokey.
Smokey has been one of my heros since i first went to a stock car race and heard his name in reference to some modification related to "getting around a corner". He is a true legend and if you read the book (3 actually) that he wrote just before he died you can get an insight into the world of stock car racing that you won't get anywhere else.
So, as far as voting I'll pass because I'd have to vote for both and that would result in no net gain for either.
Frank

 

Good one Mutt. Who'd a thunk about making an engine turn counterclockwise for more torque coming off the corner? Or putting a 2 inch fuel line on when they regulated the gastank size? Or moving the whole frame off center{which required different length a-arms} to get off the corner better? Answer: The Smoke. Actually they are both the best, but in different ways.

 

Definately smokey yunick, I listened to his book on a long trip and thought it was amazing, inspired me to do more, both men were great in there own way, its hard to compare.

 

Since we are just bench racing, I vote for Smokey. I think a lot of what Smokey pioneered spilled over into other motor sport racing. I never heard any Nascar people talk about running any Grumpy equipment.

Why do you penalize a guy because he died? Plus...I can't get warm and fuzzy over a guy that was famous for being short and nasty with people no matter how famous or fast he was. You get bonus points in my world for being a nice guy. Now everyone will burst my baloon and tell me how much an ass Smokey was. I don't know but they didn't call him grumpy!

 

Smokey gets my vote. I followed drag racing when I was younger and later got into NASCAR. I've read about Grumpy and Smokey and I would love to have some conversations with Smokey. But I can't. Smokey had a garage (The Best Damn Garage in Town) full of one-off Ford engine parts when he died that Ford wanted back. He had an auction one time to clear out the garage and wanted Ford to pay for their parts to get them back. And what about that 7/8 scale Chevelle? And driving the NASCAR car from the tech inspection back to the garage without a gas tank?

Tracy

 

I voted for Smokey...and I know there's a vast difference in the racing circuits they built cars for, but I do think that both of them were great innovators and sportsmen. Grumpy is still winning races and better than ever. I just started this poll as sort of a clash of the titans. I know they're both kick ass mechanics, engineers, builders, thinkers and inventors. And there's many more where these two came from, but to me these guys are the cream of the crop. I like Smokey for his no-nonsense, it didn't say you couldn't do it, attitude. And the fact that he ALWAYS tried to skirt the rulebook and had fun doing it, until NASCAR got too far under his skin and he said screw it and went to Indy. Smokey also came up with a few odd-ball inventions like that all ceramic block 4 cylinder engine. I thought that was cool. I like Grumpy for his technological know-how and I think he's just as fast if not faster than the new guys in NHRA. Either way...I respect both men for what they've done to stock car racing and drag racing. I think it's been a great discussion so far...

 

That 7/8 Chevelle is the ultimate...I always loved that story and in his book he can barely remember how it went down, but it's still a great story. The car was just so far ahead of its time...or whacked out, that NASCAR just flat didn't know how to handle it. I could just see the tech guys telling Smokey, "Yeah we drained the entire fuel system, and removed the tank, you have 13 violations on the fuel system alone."....Smokey jumps in and starts it up and yells, "Make that 14!"

 

Had to vote for the Smoke. He made marks in WWII, NASCAR, Indy, Trans-Am, alternate fuel engines, Chevy, Ford & Pontiac racing efforts and a variety of other things that boggle your mind. Won as a crew chief at Daytona & Indy, etc.

Talked to him at length several times and his was a regular, one of us kind of guy. Not only that, I like his wife Margie. She adored the Smoke.

He was tough to talk to because he lost all his hearing. Margie said he'd have the TV turned up loud enough to shake the world off its axis!!!

Never met the Grump, but his name tells me something!

 

Bob Glidden

 

How about when he borrowed the templates to build a new car, because he wasn't going to cheat anymore. When he gave them back his was the only car they fit, he kind of adjusted them.

 

i have to go with grumpy just because i know him have been to his shop and seen what he does to the inside of a motor to get more power.

 

Bill 'Grumpy' Jenkins is no doubt one of the elite Pro-Stock engine gurus, just like David Rehr - Buddy Morrison and Warren Johnson.

But Smokey Yunick is a legend.

 

The whole Grumpy (as in his personality) thing is kind of funny, I had heard the same thing about Tony Christian when I was into the NMCA World's Fastest Streetcar Shootout stuff a few years back. Ended up meeting him in the pits and talked to him. I was respectful that he was at work and had no problems with any sort of attitude. I'm thinking it may be the same thing....

 

I gotta go with Smokey. I read an article when I was a kid about how he was working on an extremely effecient motor that some how did not need to be cooled by a radiator and was not "air cooled" either. Don't remember the details now. That was about 30 years ago. But it totally captivated my imatination as a kid. I think it was in Popular Mechanics or Popoular Science.

 

That would be his "Hot Vapor" engine. Everyone says is couldn't and didn't work, but suposedly he built a few and drove them a little just to show em.

Time and again I have heard the no gas tank story, and time and again it has been either denied completely, or just writen off as he drove it to the garage with the fuel left in the carb float bowls.

You can chalk one more up to old Smokey too, Motorcycle racing. I just ran across this today:

"In 1953, Detroit autoworker Paul Goldsmith, riding a KRTT HArley-Davidson wrenshed on by future car tuning legend Smokey Yunick, won the (Daytona) 200, then run on the 4.1 mile beach course."

Same guy came back to the beach course in 1958 and won the 500 in a Pontiac also tuned by Smokey, and eventually finished 3rd at Indy as well. I'm not sure if Smokey that was one of Smokey's cars though.

 

Grumpy's shop is about 45 minutes from my house. Once I get my hot rod on the road, I fully plan to bring it to his shop for a "tune". I've always wanted to stop by, but I've never had anything to bring him that wouldn't be "pedestrian" compared to what he usually deals with... imagine coming in there and saying, "Grumpy, you've got one hell of a reputation! How'd you like to tune my shitbox '84 F150?" haha


Ed

 

I think that might have been that ceramic block 4-cylinder he built. He said it was somewhere around 75% efficient or something as far as not wasting heat energy. I remember Smokey was also trying to develop a camless engine, not sure how he was trying to do it, but you know now they have these electro-magnets to open and close the valves which pretty much gives infinite valve timing, but I think they have a problem with getting the magnets to support rpms above 2500 or 3000.

 

He'd probably make that shitbox '84 F150 run low 7's...

 

Smokey was the best "Gray Area"(If it don't say specifically "you can't do that",Give it a whirl,and sometimes even when they say you can't) man that ever lived.

T.OUT

 

I had the pleasure of meeting Smokey a couple of times.He was my dad's idol growing up,so much that my dad ran the number 13 on his race car,same as Smokey.The number of contributions the the OEM world from him are too numerous to list.I remember the big stink about an engine he designed in the early 80's.He was working with Chrysler for a while,and took a K-car and built an engine he deemed the "homoginizer" if I remember correctly.In the K-car it was getting like 80 miles per gallon.I am sure that Shell Oil Company paid him dearly for the patent rights.
My vote is for Smokey.Personable,had some great stories,worked his ass off until his last day.The automotive industry will likely never see another guy like him.
Oh,his name Smokey did not come from his pipe.He raced motorcycles a loong time ago.His bike smoked alot,and the announcer coined the nic name Smokey......

 

Hands down, it's Smokey. He was a true "all star". Case in point: Smokey's patented "Hot Vapor Engine"

"Smokey Yunick's hot vapor engine is simple in concept and execution. Prototypes went to many major car companies, but they couldn't figure a way to get around Smokey's patents. Smokey also faced the "Not Invented Here" mind-set. Is this engine viable for mass production? Smokey thought so. Read the patent and judge for yourself."​

From C.J. Baker's "Cool Air Equals Power", which can be found in full at http://www.bankspower.com/tech_coolair.cfm

"Twenty years ago, the late, great racing mechanic and inventor Henry 'Smokey' Yunick left the automotive engineers shaking their heads when he invented and patented his hot vapor engine. Based on the familiar four-cycle piston engine concept, instead of cooling the intake air to improve efficiency, he used coolant heat and exhaust waste heat to significantly warm the intake air. The purpose was to fully vaporize the fuel and to make the intake air expand in the intake system to generate positive pressure, like a supercharger. A small turbocharger was used as a 'mixer' and as a check valve to prevent the expanding intake air from backflowing out of the intake system. With the heated, pressurized, homogenous mixture, the engine ran at air/fuel ratios considered impossibly lean, such as 22:1, on pump gasoline. The hot vapor engine made incredible power and was highly efficient, responsive, surprisingly emissions clean, and delivered fuel economy of 45-50 MPG in a compact car, and it did it all without computers, smog pumps or catalytic converters. Although initially denounced by the automotive world as a hoax, several prominent SAE engineers later published papers validating Smokey’s theories and design. It was no hoax to Smokey. He considered it his greatest achievement. However, the automotive giants had their own designs for increasing fuel economy and controlling emissions, and Smokey’s simple and cost-efficient engine package was ignored. Today, Smokey’s designs are buried somewhere in the U.S. Patent Office (www.uspto.gov, patent numbers: 4,503,833; 4,592,329; 4,637,365; 4,862,859) awaiting someone to take this technology to the next level. So just when you think you know the rules of how things work, somebody comes along and breaks the rules. It’s only fitting that it was Smokey Yunick."