History Auto racing 1894-1942

David, I am not sure how much my grandfather had in the way of recollection as to the Grey Wolf but I will chime in if I can. The Grey Wolf was in the rear of the experimental department but my grandfather was not really into racecars that much. He cared more for what they did for sales than anything else. He was much more interested in the Old Pacific which was probably more famous. Tom Fetch who had driven the Old Pacific, coast to coast worked with my grandfather in the experimental department and they remained friends till their deaths. I met about 30 years ago with Tom Fetch's grandson and spoke at some length on the Old Pacific. A good guy with a lot of rightful pride of his grandfather. My grandfather used to pay more visits to the Old Pacific than the Grey Wolf.-Jim

 

Paul as to how much re-engineering they accomplished on DePalma's new motor I do not know. Maybe that information is out there. It may be in my notes and my memory is lacking. I do not believe I have that info and am still not sure of the Detroit Special although I believe it too had single cast cylinders as reported in the 1919 Indy stats and carried one overhead shaft. It may have had one of these "new" Mercedes motors

Jim,

The Mercedes aircraft engine technique of starting with a forged steel cylinder and gas welding on the ports and water jackets was a perfect method for making "one off" experimental engines. Mercedes used it all the way up to the 1950's, but the Rolls Royce and Liberty "copies" switched to cast blocks because they couldn't control the cracking. The more I look at it, the more of the 1914 Mercedes I see in that Liberty napkin drawing.

Paul

 

Paul, the original 1650 cubic inch Liberty aero engines made in the teens were of course single cast V 12s. I am not aware though of too many single cast race engines during this era. There was Mercedes and the Detroit Special and the Duschenau (?) driven by WW Brown that come to mind but I seem to draw a blank other than that.

I have pics of the 1914 Mercedes with the hood up when the Book Brothers owned it but none of the Detroit Special with the hood up, sadly. I believe the ex-DePalma 14 Merc was left in SoCal in the early 20s. That car may have used up on some of the second tier circuits. I am sure someone would love to claim they own the car although I am not sure the car survives in any form. The Detroit Special was not used up on the track and the Book brothers kept it and drove it around Detroit streets into the thirties. By the thirties it was a real out of date racer for even the second tier circuit. I wonder what ever happened to the car?-Jim

 

Paul, the original 1650 cubic inch Liberty aero engines made in the teens were of course single cast V 12s. I am not aware though of too many single cast race engines during this era. There was Mercedes and the Detroit Special and the Duschenau (?) driven by WW Brown that come to mind but I seem to draw a blank other than that.

Jim,

Maybe it was too labor intensive or too highly skilled welding. It really is an excellent way to make just a few motors. Welding on the ports and water jackets to a steel cylinder allows for things like finned valve guides, finned cylinders and big valves running without seat inserts. The same parts could be used for a 4, 6, 8, 12 etc.......the original "modular motor".

Paul

 

Jim, documentation of the early record runs in pre-WW1 United States is one of my favorite subjects. I remember Tim posted something on Packard's 1000 Mile endurance attempt's of 1904.

Enjoy and a Happy New Year.

Click on Tim's post to see additional photos and documentation.

 

Thanks Kurtis and you have a Happy New Year as well.-Jim

 

Happy New Year H.A.M.B.er's

The discussion of the Wisconsin mill, and Ralph De Palma is terrific. I did a little casual surfing on De Palma last night, and found that he had appeared in a movie that was realeased in January of 1920 called "High Speed". Would anyone have information on this motion picture?

 

http://www.sandlotshrink.com/movieauto.htm

 

The thing though is that as successful as this DePalma Mercedes was (including the win at Indy in 1915) it did have a tendency to break.

Jim,

After a bit more research, I am beginning to understand why Wisconsin changed the bottom end on their SOHC motor. The Mercedes had a rather odd lubrication system, something you might call an "almost a total loss" system. The plain bearing crank had a pressure system with two pistons pumps circulating 4 quarts at 30 psi. A third piston pump slowly added oil from an 11 quart tank to replace what was burnt or leaked out. A fourth foot operated pump from the cockpit alternately supplied the only oil to the top end, cams and rockers and the thrust face of each piston, or to the steering and rear axle. It sounds like the Mercedes used all the skills of the riding mechanic to keep it going and it would be impossible to operate this machine as a single seater.

It also looks like Mercedes switched to roller bearing cranks for race motors in the 20's, 30's, and 50's (and Messerschmitts in the 40's).

Paul

 

Paul you got that right. The oiling systems on a number of these cars had maybe not a total loss but a pretty serious loss. It is reported that were it not for the extra 5 gallons under the cowl at Indy in 1915 he may not have won. His mechanic was furiously pumping oil over the last couple of laps as he was gushing oil. The mechanics also had to pressure the fuel and be an extra pair or eyes. I could never been a passenger at those speeds in those cars.

Also if you study some of the photographs of the day you will see streams of oil on the bodywork. Starvation of the lower end was not out of the realm so anything to do to improve that area was welcomed by the racers.

I have heard of the movie High Speed although I have not seen it.-Jim

 

Wide track indeed.
Please keep em coming MickeyD

Fwiw: Here's two wide angle photos (L.O.C.) from the 2-22-1913 Imperial Valley Road Race (Brawley to Imperial course). I did some searching and came up with
Article appeared 2-23-1913 San Fran Call: "Oldfield Wins Road Race (By Federal Wireless) IMPERIAL, Feb. 22.—Oldflald In a Fiat won the Imperial Valley road race here today, making the 203.1 miles in 4 hours, 41 mlnutei, an_ 11 seconds, averaging 43 miles an hour. Frank B. Good In a Studebaker was second and S. A. McKee in a Cadillac third. Eleven cars started."

This race Feb 22nd was sandwiched between Jan 1 & March 1 AAA sanctioned road races in San Diego. Barney was working on a movie in Hollywood at the time and had just returned from Playa Del Rey Motordrome match races in a Christie with Ralph De Palma and others.
http://www.loc.gov/pictures/resource/pan.6a01105/?co=pan

 

I found a couple of interesting items from the Missouri State Archives:

Outlaws August 1918


Jimmy Costa State Fair Races 1921

 

Wonderful photo, Carl! I have seen a copy of these panoramics, but not in this much detail. I have photos of some of those buildings from the mid-60's. Earthquakes in 1979 and last year took its toll. Two blocks west of the Bank building, however is our church, which is now over 100 years old and survived the 7.2 earthquake on Easter of 2010 Mickey Dale

 

happy new years everyone, looking forward to a great 2012 full of more wonderful images!

 

A couple more photos from the 1930's Imperial Fair races. Any information/year on either would be much appreciated.

 

Another look,maybe Quinn in the one on left?

Darn it Could be Triplett. Michael Fernier will know. Comparing with a known Triplett photo,I`d say it is him.


http://www.imscdn.com/gallery/indyc...32_Ernie_Triplett_and__ST_Donaldson_33413.jpg

 

Sadly, all the buildings in these photos are gone. We had a 6.9 earthquake in 1979 that finished off what was left of multi-story buildings. This postcard from 1924 shows the bank building. If you look to the far right of the photo, you'll see a white church. That is the Imperial Community Church, which withstood this earthquake as well as the 7.2 quake in 2010 and is still in use today

 

Covered sidewalks are still the order of the day for the old downtown areas - I'm fascinated by the place (lots of history there) and several times a year drive down from Indio for the day.
http://www.panoramio.com/user/4423448

 

Mickey,

In your second photo it appears to be a car #42 trailing the black car.

 

Living in a place that frequently see's 110-120 degrees in the summer, covered sidewalks are much appreciated! Nice set of photos, Carl

 

Good call, it does look like #42. The only program I have from that era was from the 1932 race. The #42 is listed as Lou Moore. That would be pretty cool

 

Mickey,from what I can see that #42 car looks like a Miller to me.

 

You can read a little more about it here

Just last night I found all of the recorded information that Packard did lap by lap in the record run in the Blood Collection files.

 

The discussion of the Wisconsin mill, and Ralph De Palma is terrific. I did a little casual surfing on De Palma last night, and found that he had appeared in a movie that was realeased in January of 1920 called "High Speed". Would anyone have information on this motion picture?

Zig,

Never seen "High Speed", but I'm now looking out for it. Speaking of movies, I am always finding out too late, so here's a heads up to those with TCM. You have one shot at seeing and hearing all 24 liters of the Napier Railton in "Pandora and the Flying Dutchman" on 1-19-12 at 2:00 am. The film is terrible, but the car is incredible and has 1200 ft/lbs of torque. I saw and heard a Napier Lion powered Bentley lap Donnington Park in the 70's with a school mate and we decided on the spot it was bad form to say anything negative about any British subject from that day forward. Especially after he wiped the mud off it and towed it away behind a tatty Transit van.

 

I'm here Carl, but I defer completely to Michael when it comes to the IDs of cars. Tracks, drivers from California...those I'm better on.

Still trying to drink in all the staggeringly good photos posted here.

 

First pic is Triplett. No idea on who the drivers are/would be in the second pic. If from 1930 race, the #42 car could be the Howard Spl. Can't tell what the leading car is number-wise.

 

Read a detailed post by writer Leigh Dorrington all about the 1903 Packard Grey Wolf on theoldmotor.com

Special thanks to Jim Dillion for all his help.

 

Yes, that's the great Ernie Triplett, March 5 in 1933, just before taking his third feature win at Imperial/El Centro, and I think that's Bob Carey standing to the right.

As for the picture on the right, I tend to think it's probably 1930. It's not clear enough for me to make out the cars, and they're apparently backmarkers anyway, always a difficult task. The white car is definitely not the Boyle/Miller that Lou Moore drove in 1932. Possibly the Howard Special, though - I have a 1933 picture of that car (or, maybe a later car by the same owner), and the overall shape is at least similar.

 

I think you're on to something, BanjeauX Bob! It looks like His priorities have kept the Church intact and about as good as new

 

Thanks Michael! I thought it was Ernie in the car, but had no idea that may be Bob Carey on the right.

Michael, do you have the results of the races that occurred on the mile in Imperial through the 1930's. I would love to have a copy of them. Mickey Dale