Under floor insulation? - case in point

I can see where adding the ceramic microspheres to latex paint would mimic the lizard product. But, how well is the 'latex paint mix' going to hold up on exterior surfaces which are exposed to the elements?

Great idea tho if it does hold up and certainly much more economical.

 

Same paint that Lizardskin uses...nothing special about the paint just a good quality exterior latex.

 

Everybody likes pictures so here's a couple of my 56 F100 cab. I sprayed the floor, top and bottom, with the lizardskin and then coated the underside with bedliner. I use the 3M/Marhyde Truck Guard Pro...no sense messing around with roll on non-catalyzed stuff when you can get the good stuff for not much more $$$.

 

Thanks for the pics Charlie! Out of curiosity, is LS sandable?

 

It is but if you did sand it then you would be destoying some of the insulating spheres and reducing its effectiveness. If you wanted a smoother finish then I would suggest spraying a coat of high-build 2K primer over it and then sanding it smooth if necessary.

 

Good point. Very true!

 

two points to make on lizard skin...first...do not brush it on...the microspheres need to be atomized to space them out....second...heck yes you can sand it...just like was said above, you are better off to high build it after spraying the lizard sin and then sand.after that just base/clear like you normally would

 

Is this your home made lizard skin? Looks really good.

 

Making the "lizardskin" is relatively simple, it takes a little while to get the spheres mixed into the paint but a drill mounted paddle mixer makes the job easier. In the pictures below there is a 1 pound bag of spheres (some call them balloons or bubbles, all the same) sitting next to a gallon of the paint (I use black but any color will work) I use. As you can see, when these two components are mixed together they will make about 2 gallons of "lizardskin". The consistency should be like cake batter when you spray it. The other picture hows how fine these spheres are...they just float off your hand like granulated sugar only lighter in weight.

 

A layer of metal on top of an elastomer ( "constra ined layer" )can have markedly better performance than the elastomer by itself.

A simple heat shield with air gap on the pipe does a LOT to keep radiation heating up the surroundings.

 

I call that "COST EFFECTIVE AND USER FRIENDLY!"

 

Since I am on the subject I figured that I would go ahead and mix up a batch just to document how it's done and what you can expect if you do it yourself. In photo 1 I have poured in the 1 pound bag of microspheres and the gallon of paint...as you can see the microspheres sit up on the top of the paint and the level is close to the top of the bucket (this is an empty Lizardskin 2 gallon bucket by the way). In photo 2 I have mixed the paint/microspheres with the drill and paddle attachment for about 5 minutes, you can see how lumpy it appears...NOTE: no matter how much you feel that you need to add water or to in any way thin this mixture DON"T DO IT! In photo 3 you will see how nice and smooth the mixture has become with just a few more minutes of mixing. Don't overmix, once it's to this point you are done.
At this stage the mixture is ready to spray, if you want to push the envelope you can add in even more microspheres...you are only limited by the viscosity of the mixture, add as much as you want until the mixture gets too thick to spray. A lot will depend on the viscosity of the paint that you start with.

 

I brushed mine on when I did the floor in the '50 Burb. Good stuff. I seem to remember a caution about overmixing as it breaks down the spheres.
Do the Lizard skin, paint your floor, take your wife for a ride. You can always add Dynamat (or similar) later and floor covering over that.

 

Charlie, thanks for the tech! I like how you did that in an actual LizardSkin bucket! HAHA!

 

bump

 

Micro balloons... An amazing thing when used with a good quality, medium thickness cyano acrylate (super glue). But if sanded the stuff is bad on the ol' eye balls so wet sand it!

Also this stuff is super light and super strong as a filler for little stuff. Use it on your wood parts and small stuff not as a regular body filler- its too brittle for that.

Cyano acrylate was originaly designed by NASA to cold weld metals together.

 

So there are two kids of Lizard Skin, one for noise reduction and one for thermal protection. When you make your own like shown above, which version of Lizard Skin are you making, and how would you home brew the other style?

 

This one is a thermal barrier coating, I have no direct experience with the noise reduction product. I have learned that sound proofing takes a lot more work though than just appying Dynamat or spray coating. Three steps to a good job; 1. vibration dampening...Dynamat. 2. Closed cell foam (CCF). 3. Mass-loaded vinyl. Dynamat will dampen the vibration in a panel but noise will still pass through. Mass-loaded vinyl absorbs the noise energy and the CCF isolates the mass-loaded vinyl from the panel to which it is applied. On my floors I spray two coats of lizardskin, apply a layer of Dynamat, 1/4 layer of closed cell foam, and a layer of 1/8 inch thick mass-loaded vinyl...then the carpet.

 

ok guys, I am dumb...lol where in Washington state would I get lizardskin and where would I get ceramic microspheres. thanks, would like to mix up a batch.. how long does it live in the 2 gal. bucket.???

 

Charlie put a link to where you can order the Micro spheres from and I would imagine it would last for a long time if properly stored. They don't change the make up of the paint at all just add volume to it so as long as you store it like you would any other paint you want to last it would be fine.

 

I try to be very complete/concise in my posts...post #28 has the link.

K13 is correct...this is latex paint, keep it sealed and it should last for a very long time. I will add, the longer it is on the shelf the harder it is to stir back into a smooth consistency. Not impossible, just takes a little longer.

 

Here's another link for those who are really serious about sound deadening:
http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi

 

I found this and it looks like it insulates, sound deadens and rust proofs. $49.95 a gal plus shipping. http://www.metalshield.com/buyrustproofing.html

 

It's the future...

 

Hey Chuck, how 'bout mixing the spheres in with bedliner material for under floor use? Is that a wacky idea?
I'm already impressed with the "homemade" lizard skin--Papastoys here did his 40 Ford using spheres and Kilz primer ...I dig it.

 

My research showed there is a difference between micro bubbles. Some are hollow some are solid, so I would think hollow offers more insulation and solid more vibration dampening effect.
Marine suppliers tend to stock them because they are used in fiberglass work as filler so you might try them for local access.
I used hollow sphere's in traffic marking paint. It's latex based but has added titanium which was evident in the weight compared to a straight latex gal of paint.
I brushed on multiple coats.

 

In answer to some questions,Lizardskin is not as durable as bedliner for pickup beds.I us it like undercoating,inner fender,bottom of floor etc.Helps stop stars in paint.I use hi-build primer if you want to hide it,(engine side of firewall,etc.)If using Lizardskin on carbon steel you must seal it first.Epoxy primer works great.Both Lizardskin products are flexable.You have to add a 20% flex agent in your paint.Durability wise,one of my customers tried to get it off gas filler neck,beadblaster won't touch it.Brake fluid would not soften it.You have to grind it off.Hopes this post helps.

 

Has anyone considered the natural expansion and contraction of the two different flooring materials mentioned here. One is wood, and the other is the steel subframe. I am guessing that over time something would crack because of this. On the top side that's less of an issue because you could deal with it easier. But the underside might go unnoticed, and open up a path way for moisture and road salt etc. ????

 

OK, so here is another question....could you mix the micro spheres into, say, POR 15 instead of latex? That could kill multiple birds...

 

Hey Mike...yeah that would work just fine. The spheres are pretty much inert, they just add bulk. The exterior latex paint is pretty durable itself though...