Under floor insulation? - case in point

Personally I have never heard of a solid sphere/bubble product. You are correct in your statement that hollow is best for insulation, with no trapped air inside the sphere there is no insulation to speak of. I used to do a lot of fiberglass work and we used a product called Cabosil to mix in with the resin to fill in tight bends and other areas where you couldn't get the mat to lay flat. I beleive that Cabosil is the very same product as the generic microspheres. Cabosil touts a 97% air pocket within the sphere...the specs on other products I have seen state that the wall thickness of the sphere is one tenth the diameter. Any way you look at it there's a lot more air than there is wall material in these spheres.

 

http://www.metalshield.com/
Check into this stuff. The price is better than lizard skin and unlike lizard skin they aren't selling you one coating for sound and then one for temperature. I also like the fact that it has the built in rust coating properties. The company claims it is used to coat old bridges to lock in the old rust so it must be tough. We got some for a friends 54 Hudson and I am impressed. I will be using it soon on my Fleetline.

 

I did a web search and after a few hours was asking the supplier in Seattle questions they had to ask the manufactor. As I recall Micro Bubbles are hollow, Ceramic Spheres are solid. There were a bunch of other products ranging in size but I felt they were a greater risk of absorbing moisture which didn't compute.
Its surprising how many products contain them. Epoxy primers, auto body fillers, latex paints, they're everywhere!

 

what he said. $50 bucks a gallon!!!

 

So I just ordered the micro spheres. Now I need a definitive answer to this question: does it have to be latex paint, or could I stir them into Rustoleum or some epoxy paint?? Anybody know?
I am guessing that the "tougher" stuff (metalshield) is the same spheres mixed into an enamel paint of some sort?

 

I used the silver lined insulation form Lowes. It is so cheap per roll, and it works. I have used it in 2 cars with great results.

 

They can be mixed into anything. They are just hollow glass spheres and don't change the chemistry of anything they are put in. All they do is add volume ( airspace ) to the mixture.

 

Excellent! That's what I figured. I really like the idea of being able to block at least some of the heat before it gets to the floor pan and firewall.
Thanks.

 

Would a Wagner-type electrical house paint gun work? Or would it just clog up from the added media?

 

I am thinking that if you mixed the ceramic spheres stuff into a really tough rust seal paint like KBS coatings makes it would be almost bulletproof

http://www.kbs-coatings.com/rustseal.html

 

No. Yes. For a definitive answer you need a chemist. That would be my guess as well.

 

Some really cool, DIY type formulas. I'm definitely going to try this in the future.

Since time is of the essence at this point, I decided not to risk it or try to experiment on this car. I spent the extra coin and ordered the Lizard Skin a couple days ago. Of all the places I checked, JEGS sold it the cheapest, and since they only charge a "handling fee", it was going to make it even cheaper to get it here.

I'm going to use the LS on the INSIDE and use undercoating on the bottom side for the floor boards to give it a little bit of a textured look. Then for the tunnels I'm going to use it just on the bottom side so when I top-coat with my final color the tunnels will have a nice smooth finish.

I really do want to try the home remedies though. Keep the info going!

Thanks!

 

I used the Peel & Seal self sticking from Lowes on the floor and inside panels of our '32. At least two layers on the floor. Then added some blue sheed vinyl stuff with bubble layer on one side. Found this stuff blowing in the wind at the local rebuilders yard and it was free! Came wrapped around new bumber parts, etc. First we sprayed a bed liner type coating on both sides of the floor and then added the Peel & Seal. On top of our several layers we added a thin plywood "floor" and it looks the part. Lot's wind noise in a roadster but there seems to be very little body noise. the only heat coming into the cockpit is from the holes around the pedals - need to fix that this spring.

 

Lots of cool ideas on how to do it yourself. I am interested on what gun to use to spray the homade stuff. Also does this stuff have overspary like paint where you need to cover the whole outside of the car?

 

I think the best bet is a schutz gun.

 

Turns out a Shutz isn't very expensive, either: http://www.toolsusa.com/asp/item_detail.asp?T1=PBE+SGE+7402&GENB=pgun&UID=

That was just the first site that popped up when I did a Google search. They might be even cheaper elsewhere.

 

use a texture gun. like i sad before- spray the inside with pam, and let it dry. just take the gun apart when it drys, and the 'mold' pops right out

 

Can I ask a stupid question? Why is a Schutz gun called that? What IS "Schutz"?

A "texture gun"? You mean like the one I have already for spraying texture on an interior house wall? The one with the big plastic hopper on top of it?

 

JC Whitney has the guns for under 10 bucks if you want a one time use tool

 

I used Lizard Skin on my 40, in and out. I sprayed two coats on everything inside and one underneath. I read later on that painting over the LZ underneath was desireable. By then it was on tghe frame with exhaust ran. I called the company and asked if I had messed up bad. They thought that unless I was looking for show clean underneath [I'm not] that it would wear just fine. Not enough miles yet to know how true that is. A friend with a brother in the paint supply business later did his El Camino with a roller on the inside floor. His brother brought him an expensive device that measures thickness of coatings. He found it took three coats rolling it [pretty thick with the roller] to meet their specified thickness. I used it to measure mine and the inside was about 1/2 of their specs [don't remember what that is]. Of course I also used B-Quiet all over the inside of the car, and have one coat under, so I think I am good. I think that one of the benefits of the Lizard Skin type stuff is that it does a great job of sealing the entire car.

 

shutz gun is the metal one with the metal straw coming out the bottom. you screw a can of xxx on the bottom


texture gun is the thing with the big ole hopper on the top and the gun splits in half for cleaning.


spray some pam in the hopper, a little shot thru the gun, and spray-away


when i did bedliners, it was 2 55 gallon drums of A/B mix, a 55 gallon drum of recycled tire crumbs, you mixed everything in and poured it in the hopper. i could spray it almost 1/4" thick if you wanted.


scrape it with 36 grit real good, wipe down with MEK, and get to town......


although for simplicity and easier (to me) i use the aluminum tar tape from home depot and love the hell out of it. inside door shells, vapor barriers, floors, fire walls, tunnels, you name it. makes it REALLY quiet.
put some jute over it, and its rolling quiet death

 

Ok, thanks.

Until I started reading this thread I had pretty much planned on using the Home Depot/Lowe's Peel 'n Stick too. I've got a little rust repair to do and then I plan on either epoxy prming or using KBS, then the P&S.

 

I went to both LOWES & HOME DEPOT today, and could find no one in wither store who knew what I was talking about or what department this product might be in. They said it was probably in their online catologue.

 

I get a real kick out of all the guys posting on using the peel and seal stuff from Lowes. One guy says it's rolling quiet death.

Yes it is, death to the sheetmetal its applied to. If there is any possible way for moisture to find it's way in behind that stuff it will. And you will see rust like you have never seen before.

It's a bad choice for automotive sound deadner.

 

lol, and you think dynamat, jute or carpet for that matter is any better? moisture gets in there, anything will rot when it doesnt dry out.

look at a boat with carpet. it sits out in the SUN, and it still stays wet (has all the time in the world to dry out during the summer or hot days) and is covered in fiberglass resin or gelcoat..... and it still rots the wood.

simple.
dont let it get wet= seal up your cabin.
if it gets wet= dry it out!

 

I'm thinking the roofing department, I was wondering the same thing.......?

 

I'm glad you mentioned that. This is the same issue I have with the homemade LIZARD SKIN. You would be spraying a WATER-based sustance onto metal. that, once cured would still hold water against the metal. Same climate as water that gathers under a (separate) bed liner trapping water against the bed. Don't tell me that the bed liner doesnt shift with a load & chaffe the metal bed. I'm really looking at spraying an areosol (sic) bed liner under the floor pan. At the same time, I worry about under the car heat affecting that. As for inside the car & under the roof, I'm still undecided. This is a low $ build (why else would I be on this site). DYNA MAT is just not in the price range I'm looking for.

 

I havent read throught this whole thread (1st and last page) But I'll tell you my experiences with Lizard Skin.....I love the stuff!

I bought one tub of each of the sound deadener and heat control....just judging by experience the heat control will not do sound deadening justice as it is very light and the sound deadener is not.

I applied BOTH to the underside of my cab as well as the inside of my cab....the underside of the cab I laid it on a scosh thicker and sanded it down smooth once it dried and top coated it with chassis black....it came out awesome.

I as well did not want to buy their gun for a hunnert bucks and used a el cheapo HF detail/primer gun that I drilled out a tad for the thicker substrate.....took me bout a half hour to modify the gun and it works awesome....obviously once you do this the gun wont be much good for anything else but for $9 (on sale) I didnt have a problem with that.

Here is everything I have coated with one tub of each: The underside of the cab as well as the entire inside of the cab (firewall, floor, back cab, innerdoors, roof), the front inner fenders and inner splash approns (on the wheel side)

while I have not done it yet i will only be using the sound deadener on the underside of the bed, the rear inner fenders and the steel tonnoe cover.

SO essentially I will have coated the entire truck with one tub of each material....it also should be noted that the sound deadener material is great for keeping the rock stars out of your fenders seeing as they are singlewall steel....

I Love the stuff.

 

Salty,
Thanks for the report back! Much appreciated!

I spent all weekend on the bottom of the body just getting the rust removed or at least neutralized. I'm ready to lay down some primer and get that sucker coated with Lizard Skin!

I'm going to end up spraying both types of Lizard skin on top and bottom of the floors, bottom of trans and drive line tunnels, firewall, doors, and all the rest of the interior including the roof insert (which is aluminum).

I'll post some pics when I'm done...

 

please let me know how this works. I am looking to buy the LS, but wanting to make sure it is good shit. I like it because it is not as thinck as the mat and other stuff. So keep us posted