Need some brainstorming with someone who might of had the same problems... I am using an 88 s10 pedal ***embly and clutch master cylinder. Ive got everything bolted up, lined up and ready to go. Clutch pedal is firm, but it releases the clutch on my camaro t5 really nice. But after about 10 pushes of the clutch the clutch pushrod bends. At first I though it was a binding issue, but after studying what I got, everything is in perfect alignment. So, I am thinking that its because my pressure plate for the camaro T5 is to strong for the master. It comes with this really flimsy pushrod and I am excepting advice on how to strengthen it. I bought some 3/8 round stock, I intend on locating how deep the original pushrod goes into the master cylinder and the cutting it threading and then fabricating the 3/8s rounds stock into an adjustable pushrod. Here is a picture of POS in question.
Yep, it'll definitely bend--been there, done that. I used the same setup on my 55 with the same results. Solution: go find the longest 3/8" grade 8 bolt you can find (6" or so, maybe greater) and cut the head off. You might have to thread one end (which ain't fun on a grade 8) and use a coupler to add another one if you need it longer. Keep playing and you'll get it. The grade 8 won't bend. The problem is the pressure plate in the s10 clutch. That's why they came with the slave cyl. and hyd. clutch. good luck cooger
I have a 62 fairlane with a 302 3 speed with a centerforce clutch and a lakewood bellhousing ,the stock z bar is bending . not to hijack your thread but I just gave up for the day ,wondering what to do next?
Thanks for the reply. Now for clarification, did you just use the bolt or did you couple it to the original pushrod? Using 3/4 grade 8 and 1/4 original.
I didn't have the orig. pushrod, just the bhousing and slave. I think the orig. pushrod was grade 8 -3/8 also. I used a very old (1940!!) arm that had a 3/8 hole in the end. Just bolted it to the arm. I did use the coupler for adj. purposes and also left about 1" of threads on the arm end for adj. Made for a straight geometry push. Used a Wilwood master cyl. from speedway to match to the slave. Before, when I tried to use round stock, it bent every time, including when I laid a bead of weld down it for strength. good luck cooger
if it needs to be longer than 6" use again grade 8 bolts cut off both heads and join with a threaded coupler in the center. grind heads as needed.
I'm no Ford expert, but I have a buddy with a 55 chev. with the Centerforce clutch, 5 speed with the stock z bar. I can't believe how easy his clutch is, even compared to my hydraulic. He's never had a problem with the z bar in his. Maybe you could try welding flat bracing on it, esentially doubling the size. There's probably someone reading this that knows exactly what to do and will get back to you. Must have one heck of a lot of pp pressure on it or misalignment. cooger
To give you a better idea of what I plan on trying.. The master has a ball (far right on the small pushrod) the slips in the master and it retains it from falling out. So I plan on cutting that pushrod down to 2 inches long and then thread 3/4 on the left side (where the x is) And then I am going to cut my round stock 3/8s I believe it is down to size and then tap in threads 3/4s down and put a joint on the other end to grab hold of the pedal... Sound like a plan? Any improvements?
i think you need to look into the bore sizes of the master and slave cylinders. perhaps you need a larger slave or smaller master.
ray, you would be correct in bore size. Itd be nice if it was just that easy.. but its not. I have already made this setup work and it works really nice providing the pushrod doesnt bend. Unfortunatly the s10 master is the only master that will bolt up to that pedal ***embly without more fabrication then what its going to take a pushrod not bend.
Make sure your clutch folk isn't maxing out against the bell housing before slave cylinder is maxing out. If it is then somethings going to bend or give. THis was the case when i made my clutch system. In other words clutch fork travel was maxed before clutch pedal was pedal to the medal. I was in a rush to move the car under its own power and the system wasn't bleed of air so i pump the clutch to get it to build pressure. But its system is replaced now, bled and safe
It wasnt maxing out. It actually worked perfect. It bend on the 10th time I pushed it in. And it bent on the top of the stroke not the bottom. I think it all has to do with this cheap *** pushrod and having more pressure then designed for it. The same size master and slave are used in full size pickups but the pushrod is a lot thicker. If the fullsize pushrod would work with the s10 master Id use it.
Whys your pushrod so long? Heres my slave These are mock up pictures. Slave to bracket clearance issue (as seen lower right) was addressed by modifying clutch arm
are you running a 235 inline six cylinder with the T5? if so you need a 1/2" spacer plate between the bellhousiung and the T5 theres a guy here in MN that has it call me mike 612-201-9797
I think your idea will work, if it bends again you will have to turn a new on a lathe with out the joint .I had a similar problem on ot 4x4 toyota .I turned some old rod I found into a new one and it works fine .
Heres what I made. Works like a charm. Clutch is still really stiff. I Dont really know whats going on but I am going to keep investigating. I think my hydraulic advantage is just off. The camaro this would be on would have a 1.3 hydraulic advantage ( 1' master and a .75 slave) and my setup has a 1.16 hydraulic advantage ( .7' master and a .815 slave). I made my pushrod out of two grade a bolts 3/8s. I ground the head down of one bolt and made it round and then connected with a hex connector and cut the other bolt and welded on a hoop. Here are the pictures
After going around and trying out clutches in different trucks mine is WAY to stiff. I am considering moving the pedal mount a little higher on the clutch pedal. I am just afraid that isnt the best solution.. I dont think it should take that much hydraulic pressure to release the clutch.
Can you lengthen the throw out arm? It will increase the leverage but it will move farther. I had a Hays clutch in my 57 chev that made my left leg twitch if I had to hold it too long.
I dont think I can lengthen the arm easily. Senses its hydraulic there is a ball point that fits into the fork... I just measured my clutch pedal and it seems to have a 4 to 1 pedal ratio. maybe I need to move the linkage point up a bit.
It would require modifying the arm or adding a piece to it. I don't know how much room you have to work with. It seems that the clutch is hard to push which is why the original slave cylinder rod bent. Moving the linkage point up on the pedal will make the pedal easier to push but will require more pedal travel.
Ive got room to move it up another half inch or so. That would give me a 5 to 1 pedal ratio. But I dont know if thats the answer. I am just worried something in my system is binding up and I am just compensating with more leverage. I am using a lakewood 15020 bellhousing with a stock camaro clutch fork, pivot ball, and throw out bearing. The clutch is just a factory style clutch and pressure plate. I bought it with the ****** and they guy said it was new, and it looks new so I have no reason not to believe him.
Bend it back in shape take it to a weld shop and have them weld some square bar stock to it. This fixed mine. You may want them to reinforce the fulcrum for your clutch fork also mine broke.
My $.02: Pushrod- Get some 1/4" schedule 80 pipe long enough for the pushrod. It's .54" od, .119 wall, giving an id of .302" Drill this out to 5/16, tap 3/8-16, then cut the head off a suitable length grade 8 bolt for the cylinder end, ball the end. Use a rod end with a 3/8" stem for the pedal end. Alternately, you could use 1/2" od, .120" wall dom tubing. As others have said, sounds like you need to look at dimensions and ratios for all the parts in the system. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but if memory serves you need about .030- .040" air gap between the disc and the flywheel when the pressure plate is released. Add to that about 1/16" for pedal freeplay, and however much travel it takes for the pressure plate to unclamp the disc. For example let's say you need the throwout bearing to move about .350". What's the ratio of the fork, maybe 3:1? So now the outer end of the fork needs to move 1.050". You need a slave cylinder with at least that much travel. With 1:1 cylinder bores, a pedal with 4:1 ratio yields pedal travel of 4.2". A pedal with higher ratio (say 5:1) would be easier to push, and have 5.25" of travel. You could also play with cylinder bores to change the ratio. A smaller bore master with more stroke gives mechanical advantage over a slave cylinder with a larger bore and shorter stroke, they both move the same amount of fluid. Hope this makes sense. Edit: A 3/8 rod end is probably going to be fine thread, 3/8-24. So, drill and tap both ends of the tube the same and use a fine thread bolt.
Halfdozen, thanks for your $.02 but I cant change bore sizes without starting from scratch. Which would be find given I have ruled out any possibility of making this setup work. The only thing I can do is change the geometry of what I have now. Basically its because the master on an S10 is pointed up when it comes threw the firewall.. Heres a pictures..
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