with right gear and transsmission gmc 270-302 is one of the best 50ies engines build 4inch bore and 4 inch stroke you can take a fullloaded gmc 100 up any hill try that with a chevy smallblock(1955-1959) ken sweden
If you can walk into a showroom and sign on the dotted line, and buy a car that is faster than the one you built, what is the point of building a hot rod? Today you can do that. So why bother building a car at all? There must be some reason beyond sheer speed. My favorite explanation came from a guy who built a 32 Ford roadster with a big block Chev engine. He said "that car wore me slick with expenses and when it was all done I was afraid to drive it in case I got a scratch on the $20,000 paint job. So I sold it and bought a 51 Chevy coupe,painted it with black primer, put duals on the six and Mexican blankets on the seats. Now I can drive it everywhere and have more fun than I ever had with the roadster". So go ahead and have fun with your V8. Some people have fun with a V8, some with a 6, some with a 4. It is no longer about going fast, there are easier ways to do that. It is about having fun.
I graduated high school in 1960, so I have seen a lot. In school, the guys always said, "six in a row wont go". I wish they all could have been with me at Bonneville the day I watched the Hudson Boys drive, (no push off) away and cruise to over 200 MPH with a six cylinder Hudson flathead. There are cars there with sixes over three. Its not what you have, its how well you can make it run.
the entire hobby/ passion of re-building old machinery is sort of anachronistic, so to try and apply "logic" to anyone's personal choice in seemingly outdated equipment will always end the same way.....
When I pop the hood of the '50, the inline six with 3 side-draught Dellortos gets all the attention. The SBC rides get glanced over. Not bragging, just sayin'. <---And this big tanker scoots pretty damn good too!
As a rule "everyone likes their own brand", and everyone wants others to accept their position, because it is the "right" position. I remember when I was younger, I had a friend who had a nice AD truck with a 235. He was kicking the idea around of either building up the six, or dropping in a V-8. We noticed an obvious issue with the steering box being in the way of a V-8. I was (at the time) a big "you need an 8" guy. My friend ended up selling the AD, and buying a 60 1/2 ton instead, all because of the V-8 thing, (and well, also because of the 5K he got for his AD.... ) Anyway, I have gotten older, and I think smarter, I LIKE the idea of old 6s. So much so that when I build my 60 Falcon, it will have a 6, 15 years ago I wouldn't have even considered the little 6. As stated, power is cheap and easy with the right V-8, but I have come to understand that it ain't all about power to spare. Putting your faith in bad ass power will lead to disappointment when, and not if, you get your ass handed to you at a stop light, maybe by a 4 or 6..... As for me, I have grown to like the sound of a 6, especially with a split manifold...
I have a 500 hp 500 ft lb 383 stroker that I'm passing on for my A.D. project because it has an almost original 235 inline 6 that will still spins the tires. It wont be the fastest, shit it wont even be fast. but it just seems to capture the essence of the project.
GMC 302 can be pretty bad ass hopped up, but like I said earlier, dollar for dollar pound for pound if you are building a GMC302 to go fast, you obviously are after horsepower. So here is a imaginary challenge. Someone lay out a shopping list of go fast goodies for a 302. The works, whatever you want. Please include dollar amounts. I will then take THAT dollar amount and do an imaginary build on a 327 since 350's are too new for this board. Maybe we can get one of the Y block gurus on here to do a imaginary build too. Take it one further and do an early hemi or poly, but I think the price of parts on this one may eat up any potential gains so the built 302 may give one of these a run for the money on the limited budget you choose. We will than run them on desktop dyno and have a good old fashioned shootout. Biggest problem I forsee and can't verify it now cause I'm not at home is whether you can even run an inline 6 on desktop dyno. Should be interesting, I say for simplicity sake lets keep it naturally aspirated.
Hey, forgot to mention, we should throw in machine work too, I'm guessing 1K should do it with a light rework of the head(s)?
Just what I was thinking.......if going fast is the end goal, a decent credit rating and a few signatures will get you a new Camaro, Challenger, or Mustang. Problem solved, and you can even have heated seats that give you the sensation of having recently wet your pants. You can put 90 percent of the engines guys on this board love into the "costs alot to rebuild and, in the end, don't really go that fast in 2012 terms" category.
I think you might be missing the point...... We aren't talking apples to apples. The "build" for my 144 6 will consist of an upgraded distributor to ditch the Load-O-Matic, and a rebuild kit for the carb. My build will make what, 80 HP? for about $200, or about $2.50 per HP... Using this formula, you should be able to build a 500 HP SBC for $1,250.00.... Did I mention it ain't always an apples to apples thing?
I won't even post a pic cause its so far off topic but I was the second person to buy one of the new Camaros in my city in 2010 when they were released. But watch the video in my signature. My new Camaro is fast, but I'll bet my little pickup would have given it a run for the money and the sensation is 100% polar opposites. Scot
Hey 42HotRod, Any sound of an engine works for me. As long as it isnt a RiceBurner Fart Can... haha! I love a small block chevy with some glass packs or a flathead ford v8 as much as an inline 6 with Dual straight pipes! Brap Brappp. haha but yeah, guess it is a kick seeing what everyone has to say about inlines. To each their own...
But that is precisely the point: not going fast as such but going fast on our own terms. Hot rodding has always been about beating the exotica of the day without relying on the concentrated might of a factory. The bar is high today, especially if "our terms" include carbs and distributor; but there will always be those of us who won't let that rest ... As regards the inline thing, sixes fell out of favour in the musclecar era, i.e. just after the HAMB era, when the American norm became a choice of six or V8 in a new car. The V8 version was the obvious choice. I must admit to the same prejudice as 42hotrod. We're probably about the same age. The sound of a big-cam V8 has taken thorough root and would be hard to usurp in my affections, supposing for an instant I'd want to do that
You guys building GMC and Ford sixes have it easy. Current project a 62 Rambler Classic SW. 196 OHV six. We found 60 over pistons that will go in next year sometime. Camshaft will have to be reground. We are working on a tripower manifold. Note the 196 has a flat plate for a manifold, cut up some aluminum plate and you have a new manifold. We are going on the 2012 Hot Rod Power Tour with the engine freshened up, new valve seals and the tri power. We went on the 2010 HRPT with our 401 V8 73 Gremlin. 11 MPG max out of that. We were going to swap the 401 into the 62 but needed a challenge, and better MPG. Down the road a complete rebuild on the 6 and possible mild turbo. Am I crazy? Yes, and proud of it. Nick
42hotrod, Why limit your question to just a GMC 302? Why not take one of my '66 300 ci Fords into the mix? And to keep it fair in the displacement department use a 305 or 307 SBC. A grand worth of ebay goodies and some garage tinkering could land you in excess of 300 RWHP with the Ferd. Been there.
Ha Ha Ha!!! I still don't get seat heaters! The only good thing I can see is to turn your buddies or girlfriends side on on a 118degree day for torture puposes... Seems that every time I jump in a late model, they're on, it's 118 ('bout 150 in the car!) and there is too many buttons to figure out which turns them off! Net result, wet pants for a different reason!!! Sorry, so very far O/T I'll shut up now!
I forgot about your Ford 300's, I have read some of your threads and you can sure build and tune those fords! I think the 327 is fair, its been around since the 50's, one of the original design small blocks. 307 and 305 are both late 70's and newer, unless the 307 came out in 69', I can't remember exactly when. Scot
Notice how many times the word Falcon gets used here. That's the key. Weight ratio. Of course you can't fathom an inline in your muscle car mind, or for powering a 57 Chevy. Damn things are too heavy. But early Falcons were so light that an inline was more fun and manageable to drive on the street than say a 289 or 302. Low end torque is more fun than you might think. I had one that was so quick I could barely keep tires on the back of it. So much fun and cheap to run. And I once changed the head gasket in a friendly gas station parking lot in the snow when it popped outside Pittsburgh. Not sure that would have gone as well with a small block!
If i would have SB ed my truck i would have missed out on the numerous conversations with the ol'timers that "use to run the hell out of those old motors" back in the day. and so far that's been worth it
Sorry sir, just my opinion, but I don't get doing any work on my cars that doesn't result in it going faster or handling better. I can't wrap my head around that much work just to make it sound louder. Just my definition.
Absatively! In my old Falcon I often was filled with wonder and happiness that I could even change the oil with out crawling around under the car!! Similar deal on a head gasket in a parts store parking lot too!
You should've waited for the 2013 Shelby Mustang. More hp for probably the same $$$ See, your initial argument can apply to anything.
See 42hotrod........I tried to tell 'ya...........somebody is always faster.....so, what the rest of us are trying to say is, we are measuring our progress relatively.....relative to what we started with..............not on an absolute scale. Ray
I'm more of a Chevy guy, just personal preference. But, I should have waited for the new ZL1 Camaro. Not that I could afford the 54K sticker but OMG its one sexy, supercharged, beast of a car. http://www.chevrolet.com/camaro-zl1-sports-car/features-specs/ And now back to our regularly scheduled traditional thread. One of the best answers yet, being that you are improving upon what you have.
I actually don't have a muscle car mind myself. You have to realize that my first race car was a 312 powered 12 second car. I used to pit with a fella that had a six cylinder powered Healy. It was prety quick but it was not your run of the mill six with 3 carbs bolted on and a split exahust. It was an exotic, injected screamer. Some of the fellas here actually build some pretty exotic 6s. I have a deep appreciation for an exotic in any configuration. I think where it gets lost on me is that most of what you see is not actually built it is just dressed up. Pretty hard for me to get impressed over a sheep in wolf's clothing. Like I said earlier it is just a matter of personal preference. Everyone has to build whatever they have in whatever fasion they like.
You just described the car in your avatar. So I ask you, why that underpowered, heavy, outdated beast?
If I'm doing a resto and the car is a 6-cylinder, no problem, it stays. If I'm doing a clean-sheet build on a hot rod, a 6 cylinder isn't going to to cut it. Face it, I'm not a big dollar guy. I'll save up for long periods to get what I want, but my main priority is to ensure that bills get paid, the food is on the table, and we've all got clothes to wear. The hotrods are the last things to see any money, so I have to make my dollars work as efficiently as possible. I see no sense in spending more money to make less horsepower. I find it funny how some folks on this site shun the SBC (and even the SBF). They're common and plentiful because they cost less to build, are dependable, and make excellent power. What's so wrong with that? If you want to build something to be cool and different, by all means, press on. I think a 6 cylinder looks cool in the right vehicle. But that's where I draw the line. I've heard all the tales of giant-killing 6 cylinders, and how a 6 makes more torque, can pull a heavier load, blah, blah, blah. Set a similar budget and build a 6-cylinder and build a V-8. Hell, build a GMC 302 and Chevy 302 SBC. The Jimmy might get the SBC for the first 5 feet, but that little SBC will motor past that 6 on the big end like it was tied to a stump. I have to agree with Chip's assessment about the split manifolds and glasspacks on a 6. That sound ranks up there with the sound of Rosie O'Donnell's voice. And why do guys with this set-up ALWAYS feel the need to rap the throttle at every opportunity? Knock it off!!!!! If you want to look cool, make good power, and NOT have a SBC, build a Nailhead, a Caddy, a Pontiac, or a Hemi.
The Jalopy Journal
