History We ALL Love a DARE! PIX of TRULY Extinct Makes?

I will try this weekend.
Actually scanned them and cropped them this morning, then went to the "browse" to add them, and couldn't find them.
Always in a hurry early AM before work.......

but it does look pretty much like this one!

 

Jimi, that car is a very famous Delage and arguably one of the 40 or so most valuable cars in the world. I have no problem with you deleting the original post. No need to disseminate incorrect info. To anybody outside of the Pebble Beach world it's understandably obscure so I can understand the mistake.

 

AJ, THANKS. I totally agree with the reasoning. And, I certainly would not want to degrade the integrity of the HAMB, NOR this thread where we've searched, mainly, for FACTS not mere gab.

Notably, there is a tendency for misinformation to get repeated as fact. THEN, how the hell does anyone counteract "urban myth," right?

Thanks again!

 

AJ, I suspect that the error on the errant site mentioned MAY have come about due to confusion about company names.

Do you think we should simply STATE that Delage/Delahaye and Delaunay-Belleville were never related, in a corporate sense?

Of course, Delage was subsumed by Delahaye after 1935. But that did not affect Delaunay-Belleville. Worth saying, since STUFF does appear on thie 'net when people are searching?

 

Finally have them uploaded
47 prototype and 39 model Delauney Belleville

 

Awesome. God bless AQ and YOU! I'd read somewhere that the first one mimicked the '39/'40 Buicks' noses. SEEMS to be TRUE!

Now if somebody, somewhere has a '32 for Chrisp and/or production numbers from the '30s and early '40s . . .

 

From the text of the AQ article it is noted: Th Delauney-Bellevill sign hung from the roof of Paris' Grand Palais exhibition hall for the last time during the October 1948 Salon de'l'Automobile. Joined by the new Rovin sign, the two names shared a space that displayed only rovin cars - the transfer of the Delauney factory to Robert Rovin to build his new small car had been completed.

1947 Rovin

 

In 1946 Rovin purchased the plant of Delaunay-Belleville, once famous as a luxury car maker and more recently also a builder of military trucks that had been deprived of customers by the dire state of the postwar economy and the return of peace to France. The plant was now adapted to build small cheap cars more appropriate to the times.

1953 Rovin

 

Delauney-Belleville medium tank

 

QUITE well-known make, but our thread is about determining rarity, even survival.
Seems RM's (apparent) estate auction points up at least one Herreshoff; and a HAMB-
er says he saw one in a private collection. So, how rare IS the Herreshoff?


1909 ad art labeled "His Herreshoff Car."



Two 1909 Herreshoffs, thanks to Royal Feltner at EarlyAmerican-
Automobiles. Sourced from the NY Public Library.

 

There's plenty of info about Charles Herreshoff, his many successes in engine-building and yacht racing, PLUS his
namesake cars. So, please don't Google that stuff and paste it here.

Question one is, anyone have a resource, so we might check the SURVIVAL RATE for the make?

Also, ANYBODY KNOW if this '13 is the Herreshoff that was in the collection of Dr. Barbara Atwood of Rockford, IL ???


1913 Herreshoff Model 30 runabout


All the following is sourced directly from an RM Auctions site.

 

Anyone know what this is???? I don't

Bringatrailer Whatzit

http://bringatrailer.com/2012/01/29/bringatrailer-whatzit-65/

BaT reader Chris S. writes:

“After my friend’s father passed away, while they were going through some of his things, they discovered these undated photographs. I imagine if there had been a picture of the grille, it would be easy to determine what this car is. A few searches on the Internet turned up some cars with similar lines, but nothing that matched exactly.”



The license plate says Oregon and 1951.



!

 

Jim, just a top-of-the-mind reaction: Suppose it might have been one version of Edwards' cars?

There do seem to be some stock Detroit pieces in there.

 

I found this about Sterling Edwards and his American Sports Car. Looks like a completely different car.

http://www.96trees.com/edwards/edwards.html

Our friend SWI had previously posted about the Edwards America on page 25 of this thread in Nov. 2009

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4588099&highlight=edwards#post4588099

 

Really don't think it's a version of the Edwards.
the suicide doors alone make it pretty different.

Could be something we may find on forgotten fiberglass.
http://www.forgottenfiberglass.com/

 

1934 Cadillac Sixteen Custom Roadster

Series 452-D. 185 bhp, 452 cu. in. overhead valve V-16 engine, three-speed manual transmission, coil spring independent front suspension, live rear axle with semi-elliptic leaf springs, and four-wheel vacuum-assisted mechanical drum brakes. Wheelbase: 154"

• Original Fleetwood design concept
• Design development by Strother MacMinn and Dave Holls
• Unique rumble seat with side door and disappearing lid
• Craftsmanship by Fran Roxas

One good turn deserves another. In the early 1980s, renowned Chicago-area restorer Fran Roxas built a car that never was. Starting with a rendering in a Cadillac catalog for Fleetwood custom bodies, which showed some innovative styles that could be created for discerning customers, he built a faithful rendition of Style 5859, a sleek dual cowl phaeton. This was no quick job. He turned to Strother MacMinn, an industry veteran stylist and long-time instructor at the prestigious Art Center College of Design in Pasadena, California. MacMinn in turn enlisted David Holls, Head of Advanced Design at General Motors, who produced a set of full-scale chassis blueprints for the Sixteen. Working from the blueprints, MacMinn scaled the catalog rendering up to full size. Constructed on a 1937 Sixteen chassis, it now resides in the Milhous Collection and is also offered in this auction.

By the early 1990s Roxas was restless again. The same catalog had a rendering of a stunning Cadillac Sixteen roadster, identified as Style 5802. As with the phaeton, this style had been illustrated but never built. Roxas again worked with MacMinn and Holls to bring the roadster to life.

The project turned out to be more ambitious than the phaeton, but MacMinn was up to the task. The rendering clearly showed a metal-covered compartment for the lowered top. On the driver’s side was a golf bag door, evidence of a rumble seat. MacMinn devised a rumble seat with a disappearing cover, which slid down behind the seat to become virtually hidden when open. The Sixteen’s generous wheelbase left plenty of room for a luggage compartment, but this made entry to the rumble seat difficult. A series of step plates on the side would have ruined the lines. MacMinn cleverly designed a passenger door in the right side that made the seat easily accessible from ground level.

A low-mileage 1935 Cadillac Sixteen Seven-Passenger Limousine became the chassis donor. The car takes its chassis number from this car, but Roxas favored the more attractive “bi-plane” bumpers of the 1934 Cadillacs. Having proved a bit fragile in ordinary use, they were replaced for 1935 by heavy conventional bar bumpers, the principal distinguishing feature of that year. A show car demanded a finer line of aesthetics, so the aircraft inspired ’34 bumpers were used instead.

Painted a light shade of yellow, the car is very handsome, set off with a dark green leather interior. There is matching green carpet on the floor. Craftsmanship is exceptional throughout and the condition outstanding. The steering wheel is the banjo-spoke “Flex wheel,” its black plastic rim unblemished. The dashboard instruments have all been carefully restored, and the carpeted luggage compartment is a tonneau cover for use when the top is down. Underneath, the car is clean and tidy, with all mechanical elements painted black. The engine compartment is similarly perfectly presented.

This Cadillac Sixteen Custom Roadster is remarkable not only for its beauty but for its sophisticated and complex construction. The Fleetwood engineers and craftsmen of the 1930s could not have done it any better. The Milhous Collection acquired the car from Fran Roxas in 1995, and it has enjoyed pride of place in the museum for a decade and a half, also being shown at Pebble Beach in the mid-1990s. A new owner will now have a chance to enjoy this singular piece of automotive history that was conceived by the geniuses at Fleetwood and brought to fruition by the finest craftsmen in the hobby.

More Pics;

http://www.rmauctions.com/milhous-collection.cfm?section=lot&SaleCode=MH12&CarID=r102&fc=0

 

1937 Cadillac Sixteen Custom Phaeton

Series 37-90. 185 bhp, 452 cu. in. overhead valve V-16 engine with three-speed manual transmission, coil spring independent front suspension, live rear axle with semi-elliptic leaf springs, and four-wheel vacuum-assisted hydraulic drum brakes. Wheelbase: 154"

• Original Fleetwood design
• Construction detail by Strother MacMinn and Dave Holls
• Craftsmanship by Fran Roxas
• Pebble Beach award winner

Automotive history is rife with designs for cars that were drawn but never built. Most of these have been forgotten in the cobwebs of time. Once in while, however, a seminal sketch is spotted and its creation taken up where the pen left off by a latter day coachbuilder. Such is the story of this Cadillac Sixteen Fleetwood Custom Phaeton.

The car was built in the early 1980s by the renowned Chicago-area restorer and craftsman Fran Roxas. It began life as a rendering in a catalog of Cadillac’s Fleetwood bodies. Although given a number by the company, it was intended as an example of what could be done for an individual customer, who, so far as is known, never materialized, and thus the body was never built.

Roxas decided to pick up at the point that the hypothetical customer might have appeared. In order to build the Style 5859 Custom Phaeton, he engaged well-known designer Strother MacMinn, an industry veteran stylist and instructor at the Art Center College of Design in Pasadena, California. MacMinn worked with GM Head of Advanced Design Dave Holls, who obtained full-size factory blueprints for the first-generation Sixteen chassis.

The donor car for this latter day classic was a low-mileage 1937 Sixteen Series 90 Seven-Passenger Limousine, Body Style 5875. The entire chassis was retained, as were body parts that could be used, principally grille, hood, floor pan and fenders, although for some elements modifications were necessary.

The original renderings were noteworthy in their simplicity and sophistication. The side-mount spare tires seen on so many Cadillac Sixteens were absent. Nor was there an external rear spare, an accoutrement that had all but disappeared from Cadillacs by 1933. Instead, the fifth tire and its necessary tools were housed in an enclosed luggage compartment.

True to the catalog rendering, the car is a dual-cowl phaeton, the rear windshield vee’d like the front. It has full skirts on the rear fenders, with large circular art deco emblems, pierced by a narrow molding. The car is painted jet black and upholstered in brown leather. The dashboard is a body-color example of the handsome Sixteen panel, nicely set off by a black banjo-spoke “Flex wheel” steering wheel. In the rear compartment is an auxiliary dashboard with a Jaeger clock in the center and two compartments with burled walnut doors. Carpeting matches the upholstery throughout.

Particularly notable is the fact that the top disappears entirely once it is lowered, beneath a hinged metal cover. For situations when the full top is not desired, there is a tonneau cover, housed in the luggage compartment when not in use.

Although Roxas built the car for his own use and enjoyment, he eventually sold it. In 1984, the car was shown at Pebble Beach, where it won First in Class in the New Coachwork Class. It made an appearance at Pebble Beach once again in the same class in the mid-1990s, remarkably placing second after the restoration had already been ten years old. The car was acquired by the Milhous Collection in 1998. Today it remains essentially as created in the Roxas workshops, straight, clean and in excellent condition.

Restoring a complete car, although requiring skill and experience, is a comparatively straightforward task. Constructing a car where none has existed, however, is a much more daunting exercise. This car is proof that it can be done and is a testament to the talents of Strother MacMinn, Dave Holls and Fran Roxas.

More Pics;

http://www.rmauctions.com/milhous-c...MH12&CarID=r103&fc=0&SortBy=RO&Category=Cars#

 

1957 David Convertible

Only 60 Davids were built, and there are few survivors. The Spanish-made micro car weighs 473 pounds, has a 10-hp electric-start engine and three-speed transmission with reverse and manages a top speed of 42 mph.

http://www.auctionsamerica.com/events/feature-lots.cfm?SaleCode=FL12&ID=r109

Looks like it would only be safe on the Golf Course to me. LOL

 

I contacted Geoffrey Hacker from Forgotten Fiberglass and found out that this car is the Tom Story Sports Car/Sports Custom featured in the January 1951 issue of Road And Track Magazine.

Here's the story;

http://www.forgottenfiberglass.com/?p=21027

 

Great info, now we know what the front looks like!

 

Good research, Jim! And, Gary, you're surely right: Seeing the front end provides the missing piece of "the picture"! HOW could any car person NOT respect this man for his vision, skill and TENACITY??? AND in the years that he conceived and built it, WAY before the trend gained steam? WOW

You're also right: This only vaguely resembles the Edwards machines. One might wonder if Jag designers didn't pay close attention to the low lines and shark-like maw. One sweet car!

So, suppose it still exists?

 

It occurs to me that despite its sometime affiliation with the enterprises of John North
Willys, the survival rate for Stearns-Knight cars may well be QUITE rare. And THAT in
spite of the Stearns company starting in 1899 and Stearns-Knight building cars from
1911 through December 20, 1929. Additionally, one might reasonably think that a
FEW of those last Stearns-Knights would probably have been registered upon sale
in 1930 AS 1930 models -- making those rare indeed. Any thoughts?

 

1917 Stearns-Knight Model L-4 Cloverleaf Roadster

 

Pre Stearns-Knight

1910 Stearns Model 15-30 Touring

 

Ok. The premise of the thread is extinction and rarity. We now know that two of the early ones are extant, not extinct.

How about the later ones, like the '30 I mentioned? I'll bet it was registered that way. Does anybody have any resources that might speak to this? Thanks.

 

Two Serial numbers for 1930 and six serial numbers and pix listed at the bottom of the chart below.

From:
THE STEARNS AND STEARNS-KNIGHT MOTOR CARS

By

Arthur W. Aseltine

http://www.nevadarockhounds.com/AWA/History/History.html

Despite the glorious 8-cylinder cars offered, only 877 Stearns-Knight machines were produced in 1927. In 1928, the great year of glory for the machine itself, even that low figure dropped slightly, to around 816. In 1929, although production would rise somewhat in this last year of prosperity before the big crash, the accumulation of costs from development of the new cars, coupled with lack of sales, had brought trouble to the doors of The F.B. Stearns Company. The stock market crash in the fall of that year would be the final blow.
John North Willys would have the good luck of selling his stock in the summer of 1929, just months before the big crash. It might be suggested that he knew about the shaky condition of the company and got out, just in time. Perhaps he did, but the official reason was that President Herbert Hoover had appointed him ambassador to Poland and he was severing his connection with the auto industry. As an aside note, Willys took with him to Poland, a 1928 Stearns-Knight 8-cylinder All Weather Cabriolet Town Car by Brunn.
It was the combination of the Willys sellout, the dismal sales picture and, finally the stock market crash in the fall of 1929 that spelled the end for Stearns and Stearns-Knight. It was on December 20, 1929, when the assembly lines came to a halt. Ten days later, on December 30, stock holders were summoned to a meeting where they heard the sad news and voted to cease operation.


[SIZE=-1]Click on the Year for a picture or the Carburetor Model for a diagram.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](If you have a picture or diagram that is not present, please send us a copy and we will include it in this web site.)[/SIZE]<TABLE border=5 cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=1 width=1300 align=center><TBODY><TR vAlign=top align=center><TH width=50>Years</TH><TH width=100>Model</TH><TH width=100>Series</TH><TH width=100>Serial Numbers</TH><TH width=50>Cyl</TH><TH width=100>Bore/Stroke</TH><TH width=100>Wheel Base</TH><TH width=150>Tire Size</TH><TH width=100>Carburetor Make</TH><TH width=100>Carburetor Model</TH><TH width=100>Ignition Make</TH><TH width=100>Ignition Model</TH><TH width=100>Starter/Generator</TH><TH width=100>Model</TH><TH width=50>Years</TH></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1898</TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD>*1</TD><TD>4 3/4 x 6</TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD>Stearns' Own</TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD>1898</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1899</TD><TD>* 2-cycle engine</TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD>*1</TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD>Stearns' Own</TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD>1899</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1900</TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD>*1</TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD>Stearns' Own</TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD>1900</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1901</TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD>1</TD><TD>6 1/4 x 7</TD><TD></TD><TD>32 x 4</TD><TD>Stearns' Own</TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD>1901</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1902</TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD>1</TD><TD>6 1/4 x 7</TD><TD></TD><TD>32 x 3 1/2</TD><TD>Stearns' Own</TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD>1902</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1902</TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD>2</TD><TD>5 x 6</TD><TD>96</TD><TD>32 x 4</TD><TD>Stearns' Own</TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD>1902</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1903</TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD>2</TD><TD>5 3/4 x 6 1/4</TD><TD>96</TD><TD>34 x 4
36 x 4 1/2</TD><TD>Stearns' Own</TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD>1903</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1904</TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD>2</TD><TD>5 3/4 x 6 1/4</TD><TD>96</TD><TD>34 x 4
36 x 4 1/2</TD><TD>Stearns' Own</TD><TD></TD><TD>Vibrator Coil</TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD>1904</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1905</TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD>4</TD><TD>4 3/8 x 5 1/4</TD><TD>111</TD><TD>34 x 4 1/2</TD><TD>Stearns' Own</TD><TD>Click here</TD><TD>HT Mag</TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD>1905</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1906</TD><TD>40-45</TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD>4</TD><TD>4 7/8 x 5 7/8</TD><TD>118</TD><TD>36 x 4 1/2</TD><TD>Stearns' Own</TD><TD></TD><TD>HT Mag</TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD>40-45</TD><TD>1906</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1907</TD><TD>30-60</TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD>4</TD><TD>5 3/8 x 5 7/8</TD><TD>120</TD><TD>36 x 3 1/2
36 x 4 1/2
36 x 5</TD><TD>Stearns' Own</TD><TD>Click here</TD><TD>HT Mag + Dist</TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD>30-60</TD><TD>1907</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1907</TD><TD>45-90</TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD>6</TD><TD>5 3/8 x 5 7/8</TD><TD>128</TD><TD>36 x 4
36 x 5</TD><TD>Stearns' Own</TD><TD></TD><TD>HT Mag + Dist</TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD>45-90</TD><TD>1907</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1908</TD><TD>30-60</TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD>4</TD><TD>5 3/8 x 5 7/8</TD><TD>120</TD><TD>36 x 3 1/2
36 x 4 1/2
36 x 5</TD><TD>Stearns' Own</TD><TD></TD><TD>Bosch + Dist</TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD>30-60</TD><TD>1908</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1908</TD><TD>45-90</TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD>6</TD><TD>5 3/8 x 5 7/8</TD><TD>128</TD><TD>36 x 4
36 x 5</TD><TD>Stearns' Own</TD><TD></TD><TD>Bosch + Dist</TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD>45-90</TD><TD>1908</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1909</TD><TD>15-30</TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD>4</TD><TD>4 1/2 x 4 5/8</TD><TD>116</TD><TD>34 x 4</TD><TD>Stearns' Own</TD><TD>Click here</TD><TD>Bosch</TD><TD>DR4 Dual</TD><TD></TD><TD>15-30</TD><TD>1909</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1909</TD><TD>30-60</TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD>4</TD><TD>5 3/8 x 5 7/8</TD><TD>121/124</TD><TD>36 x 4 1/2
36 x 5</TD><TD>Stearns' Own</TD><TD></TD><TD>Bosch</TD><TD>D4 Dual</TD><TD></TD><TD>30-60</TD><TD>1909</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1909</TD><TD>45-90</TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD>6</TD><TD>5 3/8 x 5 7/8</TD><TD>130</TD><TD>36 x 4 1/2
36 x 5</TD><TD>Stearns' Own</TD><TD></TD><TD>Bosch</TD><TD>D4 Dual</TD><TD></TD><TD>45-90</TD><TD>1909</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1910</TD><TD>15-30</TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD>4</TD><TD>4 1/2 x 4 5/8</TD><TD>116</TD><TD>34 x 4</TD><TD>Stearns' Own</TD><TD>Click here</TD><TD>Bosch</TD><TD>DR4 Dual</TD><TD></TD><TD>15-30</TD><TD>1910</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1910</TD><TD>30-60</TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD>4</TD><TD>5 3/8 x 5 7/8</TD><TD>121/124</TD><TD>30 x 4 1/2
30 x 5</TD><TD>Stearns' Own</TD><TD></TD><TD>Bosch</TD><TD>D4 Dual</TD><TD></TD><TD>30-60</TD><TD>1910</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1910</TD><TD>45-90</TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD>6</TD><TD>5 3/8 x 5 7/8</TD><TD>130</TD><TD>36 x 4 1/2
36 x 5</TD><TD>Stearns' Own</TD><TD></TD><TD>Bosch</TD><TD>D4 Dual</TD><TD></TD><TD>45-90</TD><TD>1910</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1911</TD><TD>15-30</TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD>4</TD><TD>4 1/2 x 4 5/8</TD><TD>116</TD><TD>34 x 4</TD><TD>Stearns' Own</TD><TD></TD><TD>Bosch</TD><TD>DR4 Dual</TD><TD></TD><TD>15-30</TD><TD>1911</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1911</TD><TD>30-60</TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD>4</TD><TD>5 3/8 x 5 7/8</TD><TD>121/124</TD><TD>36 x 4
36 x 5</TD><TD>Stearns' Own</TD><TD>Click here</TD><TD>Bosch</TD><TD>D4 Dual</TD><TD></TD><TD>30-60</TD><TD>1911</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1912</TD><TD>30-60</TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD>4</TD><TD>5 3/8 x 5 7/8</TD><TD>121/124</TD><TD>36 x 4
36 x 5</TD><TD>Stearns' Own</TD><TD></TD><TD>Bosch</TD><TD>D4 Dual</TD><TD></TD><TD>30-60</TD><TD>1912</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1912</TD><TD>FOUR</TD><TD>SK-4</TD><TD>5000-5875</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>4 1/4 x 5 1/2</TD><TD>116/121</TD><TD>36 x 4 1/2</TD><TD>Stromberg</TD><TD>C-3</TD><TD>Bosch</TD><TD>D4 Dual</TD><TD></TD><TD>FOUR</TD><TD>1912</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1913</TD><TD>FOUR</TD><TD>SK-4</TD><TD>6000-6412</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>4 1/4 x 5 1/2</TD><TD>116/121/127</TD><TD>36 x 4 1/2
37 x 5</TD><TD>Stromberg</TD><TD>C-3</TD><TD>Bosch</TD><TD>D4 Dual</TD><TD></TD><TD>FOUR</TD><TD>1913</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1913</TD><TD>SIX</TD><TD>SK-6</TD><TD>8000-8327</TD><TD>6</TD><TD>4 1/4 x 5 3/4</TD><TD>134/140</TD><TD>37 x 5</TD><TD>Stromberg</TD><TD>E-3</TD><TD>Mea</TD><TD>BH-6 Dual</TD><TD>Gray&Davis</TD><TD>SIX</TD><TD>1913</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1914</TD><TD>FOUR</TD><TD>SK-4</TD><TD>6500-6800</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>4 1/4 x 5 1/2</TD><TD>121/127</TD><TD>36 x 4 1/2
37 x 5</TD><TD>Stromberg</TD><TD>C-3</TD><TD>Bosch</TD><TD>D4 Dual</TD><TD>Gray&Davis</TD><TD>FOUR</TD><TD>1914</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1914</TD><TD>SIX</TD><TD>SK-6</TD><TD>8328-8727</TD><TD>6</TD><TD>4 1/4 x 5 3/4</TD><TD>134/140</TD><TD>37 x 5</TD><TD>Stromberg</TD><TD>E-3</TD><TD>Bosch</TD><TD>DU6 Duplex</TD><TD>Gray&Davis</TD><TD>SIX</TD><TD>1914</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1915</TD><TD>L</TD><TD>L-4</TD><TD>L1-L702</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>3 3/4 x 5 5/8</TD><TD>119</TD><TD>34 x 4
35 x 4 1/2</TD><TD>Schebler</TD><TD>R</TD><TD>Bosch</TD><TD>DU4 Dual</TD><TD>Gray&Davis</TD><TD>L</TD><TD>1915</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1915</TD><TD>FOUR</TD><TD>SK-4</TD><TD>7000-7039</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>4 1/4 x 5 1/2</TD><TD>121/127</TD><TD>36 x 4 1/2
37 x 5</TD><TD>Stromberg</TD><TD>C-3</TD><TD>Bosch</TD><TD>D4 Dual</TD><TD>Gray&Davis</TD><TD>FOUR</TD><TD>1915</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1915</TD><TD>SIX</TD><TD>SK-6</TD><TD>9000-9109</TD><TD>6</TD><TD>4 1/4 x 5 3/4</TD><TD>134/140</TD><TD>37 x 5</TD><TD>Stromberg</TD><TD>E-3</TD><TD>Bosch</TD><TD>DU6 Duplex</TD><TD>Gray&Davis</TD><TD>SIX</TD><TD>1915</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1916</TD><TD>L</TD><TD>L-4</TD><TD>L703-L2799</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>3 3/4 x 5 5/8</TD><TD>119</TD><TD>34 x 4
35 x 4 1/2</TD><TD>Schebler</TD><TD>R</TD><TD>Remy</TD><TD>207</TD><TD>Westinghouse
(2)</TD><TD>L</TD><TD>1916</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1916</TD><TD>EIGHT</TD><TD>SK-8</TD><TD>10001-10900</TD><TD>V-8</TD><TD>3 1/4 x 5</TD><TD>123</TD><TD>35 x 4 1/2</TD><TD>Rayfield</TD><TD>G-3P</TD><TD>Remy</TD><TD>203</TD><TD>Westinghouse
(2)</TD><TD>EIGHT</TD><TD>1916</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1917</TD><TD>L</TD><TD>L-4</TD><TD>L2800-L4720</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>3 3/4 x 5 5/8</TD><TD>119</TD><TD>34 x 4
35 x 4 1/2</TD><TD>Schebler</TD><TD>R</TD><TD>Remy</TD><TD>207</TD><TD>Westinghouse
(2)</TD><TD>L</TD><TD>1917</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1917</TD><TD>EIGHT</TD><TD>SK-8</TD><TD>10901-12078</TD><TD>V-8</TD><TD>3 1/4 x 5</TD><TD>123</TD><TD>35 x 4 1/2</TD><TD>Rayfield</TD><TD>G-3P</TD><TD>Remy</TD><TD>203</TD><TD>Westinghouse
(2)</TD><TD>EIGHT</TD><TD>1917</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1918</TD><TD>L</TD><TD>L-4</TD><TD>L4721-L5992</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>3 3/4 x 5 5/8</TD><TD>119/125</TD><TD>34 x 4
35 x 4 1/2
33 x 4 1/2</TD><TD>Schebler</TD><TD>R</TD><TD>Remy</TD><TD>207</TD><TD>Westinghouse
(2)</TD><TD>L</TD><TD>1918</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1918</TD><TD>EIGHT</TD><TD>SK-8</TD><TD>12079-12404</TD><TD>V-8</TD><TD>3 1/4 x 5</TD><TD>125</TD><TD>35 x 4 1/2</TD><TD>Rayfield</TD><TD>G-3P</TD><TD>Remy</TD><TD>203</TD><TD>Westinghouse
(2)</TD><TD>EIGHT</TD><TD>1918</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1919</TD><TD>L</TD><TD>L-4</TD><TD>L5993-L7433</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>3 3/4 x 5 5/8</TD><TD>125</TD><TD>34 x 4 1/2</TD><TD>Schebler</TD><TD>R</TD><TD>Remy</TD><TD>207</TD><TD>Westinghouse</TD><TD>L</TD><TD>1919</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1920</TD><TD>L</TD><TD>L-4</TD><TD>L7434-L10467</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>3 3/4 x 5 5/8</TD><TD>125</TD><TD>34 x 4 1/2</TD><TD>Schebler</TD><TD>S</TD><TD>Atwater Kent</TD><TD></TD><TD>Westinghouse</TD><TD>L</TD><TD>1920</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1921</TD><TD>L</TD><TD>L-4</TD><TD>L10468-L13197</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>3 3/4 x 5 5/8</TD><TD>125</TD><TD>34 x 4 1/2</TD><TD>Schebler</TD><TD>S</TD><TD>Atwater Kent</TD><TD></TD><TD>Westinghouse</TD><TD>L</TD><TD>1921</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1922</TD><TD>L</TD><TD>L-4</TD><TD>L13198-L14693</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>3 3/4 x 5 5/8</TD><TD>125</TD><TD>34 x 4 1/2</TD><TD>Rayfield</TD><TD>G-3P</TD><TD>Atwater Kent</TD><TD></TD><TD>Westinghouse</TD><TD>L</TD><TD>1922</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1923</TD><TD>L</TD><TD>L-4</TD><TD>L14694-L14932</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>3 3/4 x 5 5/8</TD><TD>125</TD><TD>33 x 4 1/2</TD><TD>Schebler</TD><TD>S</TD><TD>Atwater Kent</TD><TD></TD><TD>Westinghouse</TD><TD>L</TD><TD>1923</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1923</TD><TD>S</TD><TD>S-6</TD><TD>S1-S1753</TD><TD>6</TD><TD>3 3/8 x 5</TD><TD>130</TD><TD>34 x 4 1/2</TD><TD>Rayfield/Stromberg</TD><TD></TD><TD>Atwater Kent</TD><TD></TD><TD>Westinghouse</TD><TD>S</TD><TD>1923</TD></TR></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1924</TD><TD>B</TD><TD>B-4</TD><TD>B1-B1213</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>3 3/4 x 5 5/8</TD><TD>119</TD><TD>33 x 4 1/2</TD><TD>Schebler</TD><TD>S</TD><TD>Atwater Kent</TD><TD></TD><TD>Westinghouse</TD><TD>B</TD><TD>1924</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1924</TD><TD>L</TD><TD>L-4</TD><TD>L14933-L15003</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>3 3/4 x 5 5/8</TD><TD>125</TD><TD>33 x 4 1/2</TD><TD>Schebler</TD><TD>S</TD><TD>Atwater Kent</TD><TD></TD><TD>Westinghouse</TD><TD>L</TD><TD>1924</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1924</TD><TD>S</TD><TD>S-6</TD><TD>S1754-S2692</TD><TD>6</TD><TD>3 3/8 x 5</TD><TD>130</TD><TD>33 x 5</TD><TD>Schebler</TD><TD></TD><TD>Atwater Kent</TD><TD></TD><TD>Westinghouse</TD><TD>S</TD><TD>1924</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1925</TD><TD>B</TD><TD>B-4</TD><TD>B1214-B1315</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>3 3/4 x 5 5/8</TD><TD>119</TD><TD>33 x 4 1/2</TD><TD>Schebler</TD><TD>S</TD><TD>Westinghouse</TD><TD></TD><TD>Auto-Lite</TD><TD>B</TD><TD>1925</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1925</TD><TD>C</TD><TD>6-75</TD><TD>C1-C1249</TD><TD>6</TD><TD>3 1/4 x 5</TD><TD>121</TD><TD>32 x 4 1/2</TD><TD>Johnson</TD><TD>H</TD><TD>Atwater Kent</TD><TD></TD><TD>Auto-Lite</TD><TD>C</TD><TD>1925</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1925</TD><TD>S</TD><TD>6-95</TD><TD>S2693-S2905</TD><TD>6</TD><TD>3 3/8 x 5</TD><TD>130</TD><TD>33 x 5</TD><TD>Johnson</TD><TD>H</TD><TD>Atwater Kent</TD><TD></TD><TD>Westinghouse</TD><TD>S</TD><TD>1925</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1925</TD><TD>S</TD><TD>6-95</TD><TD>S2906-S3399</TD><TD>6</TD><TD>3 1/2 x 5</TD><TD>130</TD><TD>33 x 5</TD><TD>Johnson</TD><TD>H</TD><TD>Atwater Kent</TD><TD></TD><TD>Westinghouse</TD><TD>S</TD><TD>1925</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1926</TD><TD>B</TD><TD>B-4</TD><TD>B1316-B1393</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>3 3/4 x 5 5/8</TD><TD>119</TD><TD>33 x 4 1/2</TD><TD>Schebler</TD><TD></TD><TD>Westinghouse</TD><TD></TD><TD>Auto-Lite</TD><TD>B</TD><TD>1926</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1926</TD><TD>C</TD><TD>6-75</TD><TD>C1250-C1808</TD><TD>6</TD><TD>3 1/4 x 5</TD><TD>121</TD><TD>33 x 6</TD><TD>Johnson</TD><TD>H</TD><TD>DeJon</TD><TD>IA4004</TD><TD>DeJon
(2)</TD><TD>C</TD><TD>1926</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1926</TD><TD>D</TD><TD>6-85</TD><TD>D1-D433</TD><TD>6</TD><TD>3 1/2 x 5</TD><TD>137</TD><TD>33 x 6.75</TD><TD>Tillotson</TD><TD>SE-6A</TD><TD>DeJon</TD><TD>IA4004</TD><TD>DeJon</TD><TD>D</TD><TD>1926</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1926</TD><TD>S</TD><TD>6-95</TD><TD>S3400-S4460</TD><TD>6</TD><TD>3 1/2 x 5</TD><TD>130</TD><TD>33 x 6.75</TD><TD>Johnson</TD><TD>H</TD><TD>DeJon</TD><TD>IA4004</TD><TD>DeJon
(2)</TD><TD>S</TD><TD>1926</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1927</TD><TD>F</TD><TD>6-85</TD><TD>F602-F1089</TD><TD>6</TD><TD>3 1/2 x 5</TD><TD>137</TD><TD>32 x 6.75</TD><TD>Tillotson</TD><TD>SE-6B</TD><TD>DeJon</TD><TD>IAA4003 : IA4004</TD><TD>DeJon
(12vt)
(6vt)</TD><TD>F</TD><TD>1927</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1927</TD><TD>G</TD><TD>8-85</TD><TD>G1-G338</TD><TD>8</TD><TD>3 1/2 x 5</TD><TD>137</TD><TD>32 x 6.75</TD><TD>Tillotson</TD><TD>SP-1A</TD><TD>DeJon</TD><TD>IAA4002</TD><TD>DeJon</TD><TD>G</TD><TD>1927</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1928</TD><TD>F</TD><TD>6-85</TD><TD>F1090-F1541</TD><TD>6</TD><TD>3 1/2 x 5</TD><TD>137</TD><TD>32 x 6.75</TD><TD>Tillotson</TD><TD>SP-7A</TD><TD>DeJon</TD><TD>IAA4003</TD><TD>DeJon</TD><TD>F</TD><TD>1928</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1928</TD><TD>G</TD><TD>8-85</TD><TD>G339-G641</TD><TD>6</TD><TD>3 1/2 x 5</TD><TD>137</TD><TD>32 x 6.75</TD><TD>Tillotson</TD><TD>SP-1B</TD><TD>DeJon</TD><TD>IAA4002</TD><TD>DeJon</TD><TD>G</TD><TD>1928</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1928</TD><TD>H</TD><TD>Delx8-90</TD><TD>H15650-H15695</TD><TD>8</TD><TD>3 1/2 x 5</TD><TD>137</TD><TD>32 x 6.75</TD><TD>Tillotson</TD><TD>SP-15A</TD><TD>DeJon</TD><TD>IAA4002</TD><TD>DeJon</TD><TD>H</TD><TD>1928</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1928</TD><TD>J</TD><TD>Delx8-90</TD><TD>J11650-J11772</TD><TD>8</TD><TD>3 1/2 x 5</TD><TD>145</TD><TD>32 x 6.75</TD><TD>Tillotson</TD><TD>SP-15A</TD><TD>DeJon</TD><TD>IAA4002</TD><TD>DeJon</TD><TD>J</TD><TD>1928</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1928</TD><TD>M</TD><TD>6-80</TD><TD>M21550-M21571</TD><TD>6</TD><TD>3 3/8 x 4 3/4</TD><TD>126</TD><TD>32 x 6</TD><TD>Tillotson</TD><TD>SP-4A</TD><TD>Auto-Lite</TD><TD></TD><TD>Auto-Lite</TD><TD>M</TD><TD>1928</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1928</TD><TD>N</TD><TD>6-80</TD><TD>N51550-N51594</TD><TD>6</TD><TD>3 3/8 x 4 3/4</TD><TD>134</TD><TD>32 x 6</TD><TD>Tillotson</TD><TD>SP-4A</TD><TD>Auto-Lite</TD><TD></TD><TD>Auto-Lite</TD><TD>N</TD><TD>1928</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1929</TD><TD>H</TD><TD>Delx8-90</TD><TD>H15696</TD><TD>8</TD><TD>3 1/2 x 5</TD><TD>137</TD><TD>32 x 6.75</TD><TD>Tillotson</TD><TD>SP-15B</TD><TD>DeJon</TD><TD>IAA4002</TD><TD>DeJon</TD><TD>H</TD><TD>1929</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1929</TD><TD>H</TD><TD>Delx8-90</TD><TD></TD><TD>8</TD><TD>3 1/2 x 5</TD><TD>137</TD><TD>32 x 6.75</TD><TD>Tillotson</TD><TD>Dual VD-1A</TD><TD>DeJon</TD><TD>IAA4001</TD><TD>DeJon</TD><TD>H</TD><TD>1929</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1929</TD><TD>J</TD><TD>Delx8-90</TD><TD>J11773</TD><TD>8</TD><TD>3 1/2 x 5</TD><TD>145</TD><TD>32 x 6.75</TD><TD>Tillotson</TD><TD>SP-15B</TD><TD>DeJon</TD><TD>IAA4002</TD><TD>DeJon</TD><TD>J</TD><TD>1929</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1929</TD><TD>J</TD><TD>Delx8-90</TD><TD></TD><TD>8</TD><TD>3 1/2 x 5</TD><TD>145</TD><TD>32 x 6.75</TD><TD>Tillotson</TD><TD>Dual VD-1A</TD><TD>DeJon</TD><TD>IAA4001</TD><TD>DeJon</TD><TD>J</TD><TD>1929</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1929</TD><TD>M</TD><TD>6-80</TD><TD>M21572-M22610</TD><TD>6</TD><TD>3 3/8 x 4 3/4</TD><TD>126</TD><TD>32 x 6</TD><TD>Tillotson</TD><TD>SP-5A</TD><TD>Auto-Lite</TD><TD></TD><TD>Auto-Lite</TD><TD>M</TD><TD>1929</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1929</TD><TD>N</TD><TD>6-80</TD><TD>N51595-N52127</TD><TD>6</TD><TD>3 3/8 x 4 3/4</TD><TD>134</TD><TD>32 x 6</TD><TD>Tillotson</TD><TD>SP-5A</TD><TD>Auto-Lite</TD><TD></TD><TD>Auto-Lite</TD><TD>N</TD><TD>1929</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1930</TD><TD>H</TD><TD>Delx8-90</TD><TD>H15976</TD><TD>8</TD><TD>3 1/2 x 5</TD><TD>137</TD><TD>32 x 6.75</TD><TD>Tillotson</TD><TD>Dual VD-1B</TD><TD>DeJon</TD><TD>IAB4001</TD><TD>DeJon</TD><TD>H</TD><TD>1930</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=center><TD>1930</TD><TD>J</TD><TD>Delx8-90</TD><TD>J12037</TD><TD>8</TD><TD>3 1/2 x 5</TD><TD>145</TD><TD>32 x 6.75</TD><TD>Tillotson</TD><TD>Dual VD-1B</TD><TD>DeJon</TD><TD>IAB4001</TD><TD>DeJon</TD><TD>J</TD><TD>1930</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<CENTER>Notes: J models have H motor numbers and N models have M motor numbers</CENTER><CENTER> </CENTER><CENTER> </CENTER>

 

Nice going, Mike! That does seem to establish that even the factory considered some of those late-'29 Stearns-Knights to be headed out into the world as '30 models.

Now, where would we search to find out if any survived?

 

How about this page on this Thread????

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5930713&highlight=stearns+knight#post5930713

 

Jim, THANKS for the reminder! (Sometimes I forget to re-search the thread myself! Yike.) Lots of good material there, underscoring that the '29 and '30 Stearns-Knights ARE in the very rare category, though NOT extinct.

That said, I've still enjoyed the conversation about a KEEN make with a super power plant. We've talked about the sleeve-valve engines before. BUT, I don't think anyone posted any pics of the internal workings. Anyone know where we might find such a thing?

Also (and I guess that I'm just asking for OPINIONS): Why do you supposed John N. Willys chose not to carry on with sleeve-valve engines? Too costly to produce?

Jim found a GREAT article on two '29 Stearns-Knights. Maybe I can get him to point you all where to find it(?).