Yes, it's always about the voter and his/her/it important undeniable vote. Vote for your trusted team of the same ole two you can choose from and you did your part of saving the world from true evil. Believe it and drink and eat corn and pour it into your engines every day and all will be well. The more the merrier and never believe those losers who tell you otherwise. As they just can't figure it out.
If you put a frog in hot water, he'll jump out. If you put a frog in cold water, and gradually heat it, he'll stay there until the water gets hot enough to kill him. Relative to the many changes in this country that have gradually yet persistantly hurt the general population, I feel like we're all frogs in a pan of water...and the heat's on low.
Not so FAST there with that idea. It is a noble thought, but those oil boys weren't born yesterday. Propane is just a byproduct from refining gasoline from oil. So, the same guys selling you the gas are the ones selling you the propane. And trust me, they set the price of propane so that it isn't competitive with gasoline and I'm pretty sure it is on purpose. They used to just flare off most of the propane because there wasn't enough demand for it all and nobody cared about the environmental aspects of doing it. But now that they aren't allowed to do that anymore, conveniently somehow there is a high demand/price for it. Amazing how that magically happened. I run my truck on propane and Chevron is the only real supplier around here. The price of propane fluctuates very close to the price of gas. And if you are using it in a road vehicle they hit you with all of the same taxes as gasoline. Over the past 6-7 years I have been doing it, the cost of the propane has always been higher than gasoline except for a very short time when the gas prices spiked really high in 2006-7 or whenever that was and the propane was just a little less. My guess on that was they were just jacking the prices up on gas so high so fast, they propane boys could keep up with them and slipped behind a bit. I've had no problems with any rotting parts though and it does burn very clean and is relatively good for the environment as well. Actually safer than gasoline too, that is why the off-rod guys run it in their rigs. You certainly aren't hurting the oil boys by running it, just the opposite, but at least now it isn't just being burnt off into the air as throw away and is being put to a relatively good use. Despite all of the financial and political crap +/-, propane is pretty easy to run on old motors. It doesn't take much to convert them and in doing so sudden makes them fairly environmentally friendly without all of the ridiculously complicated crap that is needed on a modern gasoline motor to do about the same thing. But, everyone can't just run propane either. Otherwise they would be trying to dump the gasoline some other way and propane would be $25/gal.
Hi .. stude trucks...I run my cars on LPG...It is usually .55c a liter..probally $1.90 a gal ...we have just been hit with a 15c increase per liter and are told its the Saudi Arabs that control the price of world wide lpg prices...they say that the extra cold winter in the northern hemisphere has caused the increase...due to the extra demand for heating ...its a willy wonker world for the rich.....Doug
I guess I'll chime in on this issue one more time . I work on vintage cars for a living . No modern stuff comes through our shop . We have seen a HUGE issue with this ethanol fuel crap we're FORCED to use . I guess you could say it's a bit of job security , but it still sucks . I don't like customers being upset because their car is crapped-out again . We've seen fuel pump issues , fuel tank issues , fuel hose issues , carb issues we've never seen before - anything fuel-related has been a problem since this fuel has been introduced locally . Don't tell ME there's nothing wrong with this fuel ... you'd be wrong , because I see it every day at work . Bury your head in the sand if you wish , I don't care . We need to do what we can to fight this stuff , even if it seems like a no-win battle . It will BE a no-win if noone tries ! I have more/better info somewhere , but here's an article from one of our trade mags - READ IT AND EDUCATE YOURSELF ! Then help to fight it ... http://www.mossmotors.com/SiteGraphics/Pages/Ethanol.html
Aside from the main issues with ethanol in gasoline (it disolves parts, suffers from phase separation, absorbs water like a sponge, etc) another problem is gas mileage. They say you will get 10% less gas mileage with it than straight gas, but I think it is worse than that. My daily driver takes premium and I go pretty much the same places every day and put the same miles on every week, so I know how fast my gas gauge drops. One time I stopped and filled up with gas and for some reason that tank load lasted days longer than usual. Then I found out the station where I filled up sells non ethanol gas. I had filled up with it, not realizing it. The car also ran better and had more power during that time. I know some people say they have learned to work with ethanol gas, but there are a lot of garages and marine repair shops getting a lot of work that has been created since it became available, and it is not work they welcome because the fix usually doesn't last very long before the customer is back at his door........and not smiling. Don
Small engine companys ( Briggs & Stratton, Mercury Marine, etc. ) have been on this for a couple years now. Their stuff is barely living on the current 10 %. 15-20 % would probably do them in for good. So it's already been a long fight and one that might not be able to be won. Probably be a good time to invest in fuel pump companies.
The only good thing i can say about it is E85 makes a great race gas! other than that i have no use for it, have been having problems with gas line, fuel pumps and carbs for the past couple of years since they pulled MTBE started using ethanol in place of it. Told others in other posts and they laughed and now they are having the same problems, welcome to our world now.
I have had no problems as yet with 10 percent Ethanol fuel in my old and newer vehicles.I use chainsaws quite often,mine are newer pro model saws not old smokers.One smaller saw idles slightly worse and all the saws sometimes take two pulls on a hot restart where they use to start on one pull with non Ethanol gas.But they all run fine when cutting. What we have here is 5 percent of the population bitching about a problem that the other 95 percent doesn't even know or care about about.They only care about the price of fuel at the pump...... and their newer vehicles run fine on the corn gas other tan a slight drop in fuel mileage likely not even noticed.
There has been mention of slightly reduced fuel economy while using oxygenated fuel (E10)...the difference is rather significant. It is universally accepted that the decline is 10%, but real world experience suggests it is more like 15%. Ethanol blended fuels have less btu's and, thus, produce less power. It takes more fuel to produce the same amount of power. now do the math...if E10 is 90% gasoline and we burn just 10% more, we are burning as much gasoline as the vehicle on straight gas, PLUS, the additional ethanol! The environmentalists believe in this because it alters the exhaust emissions to contain levels of pollutants that are more acceptible. But when we consider the facts, the emissions may be diluted, but they have become greater in volume. the old addage ... figures lie and liers figure...hmmm. as mentioned earlier, E85 is a great fuel for racing. I am putting together another drag car that will run on E85. But that is an entirely different subject.
Worst case, there should be a choice to run non-ethanol if you want to!!! I've noticed in most of Florida where boating is a huge part of the economy, most stations have a non-ethanol option that seems to run $.30 more per gallon. There are even stations that sell non-ethanol only! My solution would be to eliminate the "mid-grade" 89 octane...who really buys that crap anyway...and offer 87, 91/93, and then 91/93 non-ethanol at the pump. Problem solved. Guess that's just too simple.
Exactly - that's the big nonsense about ethanol laced fuel. Most people don't care and some even embrace this scam, like its a good thing for the environment, they like to pay for extra. When CA recently started having mandated E10 at the pumps, I separated the ethanol from my fuel and the difference was noticeable on my daily driver Chevy 235 of 16 years. Engine ran smoother and with more power beyond any doubt and the mpg also was higher. Octane goes down about 2-3 points without the ethanol, which is not noticeable with lower compression. I still separate the ethanol for my lawn mower and weed wacker. And if I had an ethanol fueled space heater, I could save on heating cost.
All of this is brought to you by the same people that brought us mtbe. nuff said Also propane,natural gas,methane, none of those have the power of gasoline, sure they burn clean,but generally can start hard and most vehicles are not easy to convert. Ca needs help with carb, this running rampant, over paid, unelected, self serving organization needs to be cut back or cut off, wages for the top 25 or 30 people working there are over $100,000 a year, this group fines small business out of being with the most absured rules in the world, one resturant in the San Jauquin Valley got fined $50.000 for not having their hood inspection sheet in a certain place, school districts have been fined for a small paper work violation on inspection of their buses for smoke, the list goes on and on. Go to KillCarb.org and catch up on some reading. Go talk to your representives, they work for us, I've met with my senator in this area and am going to meet with my assemblyman in a couple weeks, these people need to know we can't take this any longer, the Senators aide wanted me to talk to talk to her about this problem, I politly told her that I want to talk to the Senator instead of having things translated by a 3rd party, I got my meeting.
The logic baffles me. Add ethanol to gasoline to reduce use of crude oil. Using ethanol reduces gas mileage. It takes lots of burning of fuel to run the farm equipment to grow and harvest the corn used to make the ethanol. The price of food products made from corn goes up. Where does the money from the subsidies come from? Us via taxes.
"They say you will get 10% less gas mileage with it than straight gas " With reg, gas I get 19 MPG,with the corn syrup I get 17 MPG. I check it every fill up.
This is a subject that really hits home for me. My family has a farm near Temple, TX, I am a professional cook, and I love old hot rods. But the real problem, the real reason that you should write your congressman, whether ethanol has fucked with your ride or not, is that the vast majority of corn would not come from this country. It would be coming from South America. This would leave our American farmers scrambling for a piece of a multi billion dollar pie where their prices just flat out cant compete. Couple that with the pressure from Monsanto (Watch a documentary called Food Inc, and do a little research on soy production here in the states) and we will be looking at a lot of middle America with for sale signs. Once we as citizens realize that the power is and has always been with us, then changes will be vast and rapid. Unfortunately I think that everyones TV will have to go out for the same week before something happens. Heres a nudge- the Declaration of Independence: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world."
All kinds of senerios if this bill is passed. This kinda crap comes directly from the "bead & sandals" folks from California (my native-borne home state sometimes embarrases me!) ... the psuedo-Nancy Pelosi's and Barbara Boxer's ... and their pi[pe dreams ALWAYS come back and bite them on the ass.... in this case, if this measure is forced on us in the not too far future you are gonna see a push for Genenticaly Modified corn, the anti-christ of liberalism, because the supply of natural corn has been depleted. This action will introduce GMOs to our society ..... you heard it here first! Just one of the many negative "cause-and-effect" by products of this endeavor.
So we're treading on the whole politics line here... Bottom line is right now it takes more than a gallon of crude to make a gallon of ethanol, and that is PURE govt. economics....
Maybe ALL is not lost......recently I read or heard some discussion in the mainstream media actually acknowledging that Ethanol may not be the answer!! Makes one want to shout "NO SHIT SHERLOCK!", any rational thinking person knew that years ago.......but it's a start in righting a wrong. Ray
What I said yesterday was a rant. I went back to delete it. Truth is the future is unknown. For me that is scary. Particularly when the topic is foreign to me, because most of my technical knowledge comes from backyard wrenching and car magazines. Beyond that it stops being fun for me. The future of my involvement in the hobby depends upon those who are in the know. When the rubber meets the road we have always been faced with problems it is the bane of our excistance. We as a sophisticated society have always taken problems head on and found a solution. Solutions don't always come with the first try. Then we try again until we do succeed. This whole ethanol thing is an attempt at solving a problem. Weather it is the right solution is still unknown because it leads to a whole knew set of problems. Here's hoping that solutions to those problems are discovered. But I do know this, in our hobby we have always come up with solutions. Our mere excistance is the result of problem solving. I frequent the HAMB in order to find some answers to my problems through someone elses experiences. It is something that has always defined the hot rodder. Got a problem? Find a fix through trial and error or apply some science. It's who we are. Thanks to those who are fighting the fight for me. Doug.
Some of our suppliers are starting to come around with stuff like newer style (carb) float bowl needle/seats that are more resistant to the ethanol fuel , and we're doing things like looking for fuel hose that's a bit more resistant ... things like that . It's not really moving fast enough though . We're still seeing way too many issues . I've never seen so many friggin' fuel issues - and I'm doing it EVERY workday for around 20 years ... but WTF do I know , right . Replacing fuel hoses is starting to become WAY too commonplace - till we could pinpoint it on the ethanol , we were replacing them GRATIS on cars we recently did fuel system work on ,thinking it was our faulty hose - losing $$$ on hose & labor ... that's great , isn't it ?? Another example for ya - we've seen several cases of phase separation (which we've never seen before , obviously) , and after diagnosing it , cleaning out the ENTIRE fuel system and finding non-ethanol stations for the customers to go to (some 15-20 miles away) , they've had NO issues since - and they were having BIG TIME issues before . No ethanol = no problems ... seems simple enough to me !! But back to your question - it's really just hoping that suppliers upgrade their products to fix the ethanol issues or going the extra mile (and paying the extra $$) to get non-ethanol fuel so there are definately no more issues . I think there should be a CHOICE at the pump whether or not you actually WANT the ethanol fuel . That would solve the BS in short time . Who wouldn't want less issues with better fuel and much better fuel economy ??? The problem is ... they're NOT urban myths !! This fuel SUCKS ... PERIOD ... end of discussion in MY book . You can't argue with facts (well maybe YOU can , but I'm not listenin') .
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