I have always wonderd if u could take a 390 and use 427 caps and drill the block for the side mounted mains .but i do know in late 63 a few 390s came with the side mounted caps. so the big question has anyone ever done this??????
390's with crossbolt main caps? I never heard that Ford made them,but it may have happened.. Do you mean a late 62-early 63 406? Some 406's were availible with crossbolt mains but not all..I have a friend who has a crossbolt 406 block he bought new. Just wondering why do you want to put in crossbolt caps? Are you building a stroker or blown FE?.I race FE's for years and never had an issue with main caps.
Yes. It takes some machining & you would need to align bore the block once it is ***embled because the side bolts do "m***age" things. A local FE racer near me builds them. He is near Ashland Oregon (either Talent Or Phoenix) He's sold a few on the FEForum. Movin/on
Many '64 390 blocks have the bosses cast in the block to accept the cross-bolts, but do not have the crossbolt caps- the blocks were all just cast that way. So if you find a completely grenaded 427 block, installing the caps in one of those blocks is fairly easy. I sure miss the days when cross-bolt cap sets went for $50 at swap meets
The reason I wanna do this I becouse Im gonna bore 30 over billet crank aluminum rods 671 blower 18 % percent overdrive 40 % nitro...and 427 are way to hard to find and the one that I do have is in my fairlane
Could Caps from a Genesis or Shelby block be used with machining? I don't have the need to do this but just making a suggestion for research. Those blocks may have a different set of journal sizes but still use a 3.78 stroke crank. Movin/on
Does Ford have an over the counter (or blue thunder) block that would be stronger? A guy can wrap up a bunch of machine work in a stock block as you know. How thick are the cyl walls after a .030 bore? Just wondering. Lippy
You would probably benefit more by making a main girdle than cross bolt mains. Considering you are going to run nitro with a blower, I think the girdle would be a better upgrade than the caps.
This link is a pretty good example of what machine work needs to be done. http://www.customdesignperformance.com/machine/crossbolt.html
JMHO of course, but starting with a plainjane 390 block, thinning out the cylinders by immediately going to .030 for some reason, then adding a blower and nitro, is like sending out engraved invitations to the Chebbie guys to show up, wait for the BOOM, and laugh about the "POS Ford engine". "billet" crank and aluminum rods? Really? Do you have any idea what a "billet" crank will cost you? Again, JMHO, but why not spend the money on a Genesis block, which has very thick cylinder walls (that blown nitro thing, y'know), forget about the cool-sounding "billet" stuff and the aluminum rods, and just get a good forged steel crank & rods. And main girdles are available, I put one on a CJ a while back- but that lo-po 390 block just ain't gonna be up to blown nitro, no matter how many Benjamins you throw at it- especially if you overbore it
Well for starters I already have a 3.78 4340 crank and the aluminum rods and I wanna run the stock block ad iron heads which are ported 63 tripower 406 heads trying to get a early look but the nitro didn't have to be 40 % maby 20 its more of a period correct looking car than anything
A 406 block might be a better choice, some of them were even cross bolted from the factory. I think they are a little more beefier in the cylinder walls. Still, cross bolt caps and/or a girdle on 390 can't hurt, but still a band-aid. Even the 427 blocks were thin walled castings, the bottom ends weren't where they were weak, even without being cross bolted. You probably will need to fill the block also to be on the safe side if you stick with a 390 block. Don't let their weight fool you into thinking they are heavy duty castings.
Correction! I just got word from a noted authority on FE's that Ford DID make a short run of crossbolt 390 blocks that were used in Police specials..They are rarer than rare BUT an avid Ford collector in OK. has an original.. BTW, I do have a set of 427 crossbolt caps if you decide to machine your 390..
First, I might be interested in those caps if he isn't, as I have one of the last-code '63 406 blocks with undrilled cross-bolt bosses and 427 cylinder walls that is at 427 std bore, and is pretty cherry. Do you have the blots & spacers? I have the Engineering drawing to make the spacers if you don't Second, don't get too wound up about 390 cross-bolted blocks, of course there were a few for racing and R&D- but a specific "run" for cops cars is a stretch. Could be in a few cop cars, and special fleet orders, hey if you've got the cash you write the rules, same as the GM COPO stuff, heck my dad drove a NYS Police 63 Custom (stripper Galaxie) 4dr sedan PI "pursuit" car with a 427-8V, and HD 3spd w/OD for a while when his regular unmarked 390 PI got hit an was in the body shop. Drove it home for 3 weeks, white/black and bubble gum on top, and a big blistered spot on the hood from a carb backfire. The "uniforms" were PO'd that he got to drive "the toy" every day LOL One of my FE buds that worked at DST "in the day" building the lightweights, Bolts etc. says that ALL the lightweights went out the door with crossbolts, and experimental CB blocks were in the works in '61- and BTW, crossbolts were far from a new idea, the GAA WWII tank engine was twin-carb, DOHC, aluminum cross-bolted sideoiler block- from 1937. Got another bud that worked in Experimental Engines from '66 and built race engines at Holman Moody for Ford from 68-72, and they could get most anything made, lots of SK and XE stuff. And a pretty easy guess might find this car on that "avid Ford collector"'s website under "Fireball Roberts"- I took these pictures at Sears Point, before it was delivered to OK Which now has the std forged $ threaded-plug crankshaft I pulled from the engine that was in this car when the pic was taken, my old 14:1 427
If you take one thing from this thread, its MeanGene knows his ****.....Im just sayin He can definatly lead you down the right trail, its up to you to make up ur mind about it though.
The mythical 390 block with the cast in bosses that will accept the original 4 bolt main cap (with some machining inside the block) is the C4AE-A block (actually shares a casting number with the 64 427). Its the 1964 Police Interceptor. It also has the extra reinforcements in the webbing like a 427, 428 CJ and D3TE/D6TE blocks. I have one of these that had a thick enough wall to go to a 4.13" bore (406 and 428 CJ). Plan was to use my spare 427 4 bolt caps and spacers on it. Still need to pull the plugs in the lifter valley to see if its drilled for hydraulic lifters or not (hopefully not). It's a rare block, was disappointed however, that it wouldn't go out to a 4.23" bore....I did end up with the heads to this motor as well (C4AE-G), adjustable rocker ***emblies and the large generator pulley. If I build this block as a 406, I'm going to use my 1963 406 heads (C3AE-C) Dave
Well I guess I'm gonna fill the **** out of the block and bore it just enough to clean it up and put me some aftermarket steel caps ARP studs, a gurdel and say a prayer..... maby ten pounds of boost at the most , this should live ?? Or should I say I hope
How do you tell if its drilled for hydraulic lifters, or maybe more to the point how are lifters lubed in a solid lifter block?
The only thing that makes these things "mythical" is when stuff like this gets thrown around. There was no dedicated "Police Interceptor" block, but a block with casting # C4AE-A could have indeed gone into a P-code Interceptor engine, with solid lifters and shorty headers. Also could have gone into any other 390 produced at the same time. The Police Interceptor package would have included the P-code Interceptor engine, and there were also Police Cruiser packages with regular 390-4V's and Police Guardian packages with 352's- and many big-city copmobiles were 6-cylinders, as they rarely got much chance to go fast and were spec'd out "cheep". Most of the ones my dad got as an Investigator in the NYSP were indeed plain-jane 390's and such, with the Interceptors going to the patrol cars- I rode in quite a few as a kid. Somewhere I also have a side-by-side picture of my dad's personal Plymouth Golden Commando and his '58 Plymouth unmarked copmobile when he first made Investigator- so I had a dad who was a cop and also very into cars, and also grew up very close to Watkins Glen, so I got to watch all the cl***ic stuff run when new. Many of those later solid-lifter 390 engines were machined just like the juicers, with internal plugs installed to block the galleries (the cheap way to do it)- so if it has the pipe plugs in the valley, could be either way, but should be drilled. If you look at your average center-oiler 427, 406 or early 390 HiPo block, the p***ages are just not drilled, so there are no pipe plugs in the valley- nothing to plug. The '64 blocks are nice to find, but were more a convenience/ simplicity thing when they were cast, and pretty common, not "mythical"- just like the 360/390 blocks with "66-427" on the rear bulkhead that get folks wound up when they pull them out of their old pickups- the 427 bulkhead mold just got used for the casting. Some of the '64 blocks even have cross-bolt bosses on one side and not the other. Those '64 blocks have been researched pretty well, and fortunately there's still some folks around who actually were there and can cut through the "myths"- "1964 was apparently a crowded year in the FE foundry, as the FT was launched and Ford was suddenly casting many different kinds of different FE and FT blocks. It seems the foundry took a shortcut, probably because there was not yet space for all the different sand cores, and all FE blocks seem to have inherited reinforced mains and crossbolt bosses for most of the year." Sounds way too simple, and no romance or devious plots, but those blocks just got the extra features because it was just simpler, easier and cheaper to make them that way at a busy time. The fact that they share features with the HD FT block is why many can go to 4.13 bore if necessary- but the smart money is to ignore the extra few cubic inches to get a cool-sounding 428 bore, and stay a little smaller and have the cylinder walls that much stronger- if you want to tell me you can feel any difference between a +.030 416 and a 428, I'm gonna call BS One of those blocks that had the thick walls would also make a very nice basis for a 445 stroker
I don't know squat about FE's. But I do know a bit about nitro. If you are after 8's or poss high 7's, run it blown on alky. 40% is no mans land. Oh, and run new alum rods . JMO. Lippy
Since you guys seems to know all the details about FE's.......Got this 1970 ish worn out 391 truck engine laying here.Is any of it suitable for building a performance engine ?
You'd want to sonic it of course- but if you bought a "428 service block" over the counter in the mid-late 70's, you'd have more than likely gotten a bored out 391 FT truck block There's even a bushing available to neck down the FT distributor hole to fit the smaller FE size- and plug the air compressor oil drainback hole in the side of the block. And you could sell the 391 steel crank, as some folks still like to convert them for car use, and the truck top-end and front-end stuff on craigspay and put it towards a 445 kit
Pro-Gram Engineering makes a cross bolt cap that works with all FE blocks. http://www.pro-gram.com/catalog.jsp
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