Protecting you engine from ethanol

... we are talking about keeping our cars going... , right ?

 

Some people think it's a joke, but most get it. It's seems like the two major problems are going to be the fuel lines/gaskets and the lean condition the ethanol creates right? Valve cushioning and fuel tank erosion arent causing anybody major issues? (Im not being a smart ass, Im just trying to find out what others have experienced.)

 

Actually there are sites dedicated to politics where you will be more welcome with that type of commentary.

You posted your thoughts on tunning for alcohol, some of us that are tuners pointed out some of our experience and now you want to turn it into a political rant. Your thoughts on tunning are more than welcome your political B.S. is not. Focus man.

Dog Dish,
Some of us have been tunning for a long time and we have given you our thoughts and experience. I am sorry that we do not share your sky is falling mentality.


I too share a disdain for fuel laced with alcohol, at least in the percentages that we are getting. So don't misunderstand what I am trying to say here. If E85 and up were a genuine proposition I would then purpose build my engines to run on E85, but for the most part very little has to be done to an engine as far as alcohol preparation is concerned at the percentages that we are seeing. Just basic tunning, fatten it up a bit of you don't have hard seats and or valves then some cusion for your topend and better fuel lines and gaskets.

What we get at the pump does go skunky pretty fast but I have not seen a problem with it for one setting over the winter, like I said before nothing that a dose of fuel stabilizer and keeping the tank full won't help. Hell I let the Pusher set for 9 months (I did warm it at least once a month) with a half tank and fired it up, topped off the tank and drove it 80 miles no problems at all. This with an engine that runs on premium (I use the term loosley here).

I probably wouldn't run cork gaskets on my carbs, but I have been using the most up to date pieces to build and rebuild all my life so for me it has never been a concern. I also have limited my use of flexible fuel line for a long time as well so what little flex line I have I just keep an eye on.

The main thing is use the best build techniques you can and the best parts you can buy. That and don't get shook we have passed every hurdle they have thrown at us all my life and some of the fellas are older than I am. There is nothing that can be done that we cannot overcome.

 

So it sounds like the ethanol is not the problem with gunk in the lines. Its the GASOLINE that left the gunk, ethanol just cleans it up.....

Bet our forefathers were pissed when those new fangled radial tires started showing up.... No where as good as the bias plys.

 

Yes...the price of what we pay for gasoline and whats in it has NO business being discussed in a car forum....really?

Yes...is ignorance bliss?

I want NO ethonol in my gas...and I do not want approx 47 cents a gallon added to its cost either for junk that ruins my $3000 engine rebuld..

 

I got a 1200 overhaul that I have been driving for 15 years, it has been in at least 5 bodies. It now sports about 140K+. The fuel hasn't hurt it at all, not the aluminum heads or intake, I even have the original carb on the shelf that I pulled down and went through @ 100k just for grins. My aluminum bowles don't show any major corrosion and the carb was used when I bought it.

read an article by some chemist on the internet because he couldn't get published in a major or even minor publication and get your panties in a bunch , or listen to the voice of reason you choose.

By the way leave your party pin at the door we don't give a big rats ass about your political leanings.

That goes for the rest of you as well. We have a no politics rule for a reason and it is a damned good one. Aside from causing drama that we don't need, it will also be the demise of this forum then no one will get to argue about if the sky is falling or not.

 

It's sometimes difficult to abstain from breaking the rule when politics is
so deeply entwined into every aspect of our daily lives.

 

Just my two cents, and I'm just a young(25) whopper snapper, but I've used a blend my whole life because it's what's around and have never had problems. I bought my 62 galaxies last year and it had been parked since the 80's. The first few tankfuls of e10 I ran through it brought up a lot of gunk from the tank and lines, but after a handful of tanks and retuning it, it still runs great after the 8000 I put on it so far. After a few years I'll see, but with past cars, including 2 flathead powered cars, I have never encountered any of the issues you guys talk about.

 

Some of us come here to escape the crap.

No one is going to change a tax law or a fuel additive law by posting what they think about it here. That comes from getting out and doing something about it in public or by hounding everyone involved in making said laws until they succumb to your desires.

Leave it at the door and save us all a lot of grief.

 

I'll weigh in with;
I have never had a problem with any of my vehicles, boat or small engines regarding ethanol.

 

There ya go. Now uncle daddy and I both get by just fine with what we can buy.

Now as Arlo Guthry said if there are three of us it will be a movement. Please let it be three because just two of us isn't a good thing if you listen to Arlo.

 

I drive almost excusively at 4000 ft. altitude and didn't had to increase the jets, because of the E10, but I lowered the floats 1/32" and still get boilover sometimes when parking and especially after a long hot drive in the summer.
So maybe I experiment lowering another 1/32".

Other than the occasional boilover and a less smooth running engine with slightly less power, I have not experienced any problems from the E10.

I would prefer the option of straight gas, without having to separate it.
But that will never happen here in CA.
If we get E15 or higher, I will separate every drop though, as that's when the problems will increase.

 

Back in the 50s and 60s we had trouble with gas lines frezing up here in MN. No problems in the last 30 years. HEET doesn't sell to well around here anymore!

I get a kick outa seeing all the "Cure All in a Can" companies jumping in with there NEW products to fix any poor running POS. People don't want Ethanol, but they will dump in their tank what ever the SNAKE OIL salesman is selling.

Don't believe what you hear, see, or read on the internet, or anywhere else for that matter!

 

There are some products that do trap the water molecules and prevent separation in the tank, but its not the regular Stabil or similar brands.
You have to look for it at the marine/boats parts suppliers and they cost more.

 

E 10 is all you can buy in Texas for the last 15 years and I run it in my flat head I/6 Plymouth with carter YH carburetors and my 55 Chevy Pick with a 235 with a Holley 390 cfm four barrel and have never had any carburetor problem, but I drive both of them almost daily.

 

The "upper cylinder lubricant" that used to be sold in almost every gas station and parts store was almost universally Jojoba Bean oil or Rapeseed oil according to what I have read in the past, and cut with petrolum distillates, iow mineral spirits.
Seems to me it would be worth a little searching for a bulk source, so you could mx your own, similar to using synthetic 2 stroke oil.
Here's where we could use some advice from the chemist who posted earlier.
Dave

 

IMO that would be akin to using toluene as an octane booster. who the hell *really* does that?


im sure stuff like that was back in the day, but i would be willing to bet a coke that the modern stuff from lucas/BG etc. uses something else

 

So does anybody know how much to richen up your main jets? I've heard 5% and 15%, anybody know for sure? And how does that relate to the jet size? As in, what percent is each step up in a jet? (If you have size 73, and go to a 74, what percentage is that?)

 

Me be the third...lost the lead and my un hardened valve seats are still ok, on e15 for years and did not have to change jets or has anything gummed up or get clogged but it did make the clear holley float bowl plugs gooey..On one car there is still the 1972 fuel pump!! Worst that has happened is on lawn equiptment some fuel lines deteriorating...I have not had a problem with gas going bad during winter non use, if i think of it I will run the carbs dry and thats it...

 

in my experience, going from E10-15 to E85 i had to add about 40% MORE fuel. thats a LOT. (im fuel injected though)

but you arent doing that, your going from straight gas to E10/15.

honestly i wouldn't sweat it that much. going from straight fuel to E10-15 isnt going to make the fuel that much leaner.
the only thing thats REALLY going to tell you is reading the spark plugs.


go find a gentle hill. go hammer the hell out of it and shut it down right before redline.
coast to the side, and pull a few spark plugs. see what they look like. thats really the only "shade tree" way of checking your tune.


another way, is to put a simple one wire o2 sensor and bung in it, and use a DVOM to read the voltage during the same gentle slope under load. low voltage=.1volts too lean. high voltage=.9volts too rich. shoot for about .6ish volts under load. any leaner may make a carb'ed engine misfire from being too lean.

i ran some mixed E85 with E15 to get 'bout a E60ish according to my ethanol fuel tester.......
in any case, from E60 to E85 the fuel was about .2 air fuel mixture leaner (from about 11.8 to about 12.0), according to the dyno pulls. If you are naturally aspirated, thats no big deal. seriously- no big deal, wont hurt nuthin. it may make it feel "snappier" (lean is mean!), but because of the lowered BTU of the ethanol, it kinda cancels it out. if you are turboed/supercharged, that may be a pivotal AFR point.....

im saying that when it comes to straight to E15.........


me? that fuel was when i was swapping from gasoline to E85. we couldnt get all the fuel out of the tank, so it was tuned on a little bit of a "mix" fuel.

now that i have it on 100% E85, its running around 12.0:1 under boost. perfect. on the lean side, but perfect.



seriously- dont worry boss. just worry about the filters and goo that the ethanol *may* knock loose.


do the plug test to see if you need to mess with the carb in the first place.

 

Seems to be some merit to the E15 theories. Checked my plugs the other day and they were lean and the timing was advanced too much, not a ridiculous amount but enough that it was obvious on the plugs. Haven't got around to doing anymore tuning since it's been about 9 degrees at night and 20 during the day, gotta hate winter.

 

*REMEMBER*


ethanol CLEANS the cylinders. dont mistake clean spark plugs for lean condition!


i popped a headgasket with too much boost and the cylinders looked brand new from the E85 cleaning the cylinders and head.

(i o-ringed the head with stainless piano wire )

 

Huh, good point.

 

Two of the highest volume stations in town (they get 30,000 gallons a day each on average gas and 10-20K Ethanol) delivered EACH DAY. They also have cases of HEET on sale. I shake my head each time I see someone putting E10 or 15 in their tank AND pouring HEET on top of it!

 

Personally I don't see the big fuss but can attest to the better mileage. I'm fortunate to live right around the corner from a ethanol free station and use it when I can in just about everything around here.

 

I have a gas powered air compressor that leaking shitty corn gas all over my basement floor right now. Awesome.

 

Ethanol is alcohol. Alcohol sucks up moisture. Moisture corrodes. All that white powder you find in your floatbowl is your aluminum or potmetal be corroded away.

 

You can no longer assume a good mixture read from the plugs.

For that, you will need an Oxygen sensor. I tune with one, exclusively.

If a vehicle was jetted properly for straight gasoline, it will invariably be somewhat lean on E10, or E15, in my direct experience.

 

The sky is falling the sky is falling.............. No seriously look up the sky is falling.

Add me to the never had a problem list, I'm seldom if ever using the top half of the tank, they sit for long periods that way, once in a great while I remember to add a bit of MMO when putting fuel in even though its always in the trunk. Never had an issue. Ever.

I do change the rubber lines and thats the extent of my preperations.

But the sky is still falling, I can feel it.

 

You live in the same house? Got a furnace or gas fired hot water heater in that basement? I hope not cause it's a fire situation waiting to happen.