I have a dodge 833 4 speed that needs to have a "Slick Shift" modification done to it. I understand the general idea of it but could someone explain in detail how each piece must be modified. Also if there are any other tips to getting this transmission to survive 600+hp on the strip. Also any feed back on the hurst vertigate shifter?
Slick shift was every other tooth on the gear was ground off, no syncros. Then on the slider every other tooth was milled or ground off. Pro shift slider was grind two teeth off, leave one. Of course, 1st gear (and slider) wouldn't have to be modified.
You will need to cut every other tooth off the syncro and syncro slider. Some would go farther and take every 2 teeth off because the syncro spins on gear. If you do not do all 3 (syncro, slider and gear) it will make next to no difference.
No you don't grind any teeth off the GEAR!! you grind them off the Dog rings! The best way to do it is to send your 2nd, 3rd , 4th [ input ] Gears and to shift hubs to "Liberty's Gears" in Michigan email them at libertysgears@aol.com
Wow 3 different answers.... Explains my confusion. Wouldn't cutting the engagement teeth or slider weeken the overall torque/horse power rating?
Heres the best advise if you dont mind paying a little. In the 70s, we ran one of these with great success until we got a Lenco. Easily take 600 hp on a good sized slick. You gotta yank on these to shift em under power, so make sure your seating position and shifter location is right. Bang away!
So if you didn't modify the synchro teeth on the gear itself, why does liberty gear sell a slick shift gear set? So i just modify the brass synchro rings and the inside teeth of the slider hub?
So does this let you slam shift without the clutch? Is this a drag only mod that would ruin any normal drivability because of the lack of syncronizers?
Talked to a very knowledgeable person named Paul at Liberty Gears today. There are three different ways of modifying the trans. #1-Slick Shift- Remove every other synchro tooth off the gear itself of second, third and fourth.Discard the brass synchro rings, engagement keys ,and wire spring rings, and remove every other internal spline on the "slider" (slider hub that the fork engages into). First gear synchro teeth on the gear are left alone yet no longer allow synchronization with the brass synchro discarded. 36 engagement teeth and internal splines become 18. Do Not try to remove two keep one, remove two, keep one etc. This will create an impossible mesh pattern.Yes this is race only. #2-Pro Shift- Send the main gears to Liberty Gear and they will machine the synchro teeth off the end and press on ,then weld a 12 synchro tooth on. They will sell you a 12 tooth matching slider hub. Brass synchros are not used in this method either. #3-Face Plating- Send main gears to Liberty Gears and they will machine off the synchro teeth and weld a plate on the end. This gets long slots cut in to increase strength compared to the little synchro teeth. He says all versions still need a "bump of the clutch" , to avoid dramatic wear and tear.
I've rebuilt a couple of different variations of this modification to put them back on the street for people. I wouldn't even consider one for street use, because as greg32 said, you need to hammer the thing from gear to gear. Interesting what porknbeaner called it. Around here, they called these a 'crash box'. Bud
i ran a few on the street with no problems. i ran them stock, slick shifted and liberty crash boxed. if you want comfort while shifting get a automatic. if you want to have huge fun pull that trans out and get out the air grinder. it really is a lot of fun pulling gears in one of these modified transmissions. as you use the trans the teeth will round over and need to be sharpened up. the liberty has wider and longer teeth so they will last longer. also use the older side cover with the 70 and up steel forks. just cut the length to match the brass ones. it only takes a few minutes.
I've done the grinding myself method with success but after having Liberty do my Super T10 I'd never do it myself again I love my Liberty Pro Shift! When I have driven my OT car on the street I "Double Clutch" like a truck for succesful Street shifting.
Here's a before and after photos [ I stole from another forum ] as you can see their work is quite extensive They don't grind the dog ring teeth but machine it all off then weld a "pro-shift" dog ring onto it then heat treat it Prices from Liberty's website <TABLE id=table3 border=0 width=356><TBODY><TR><TD height=23 width=350>Pro Shift Modification</TD></TR><TR><TD width=350>$80.00 per Gear Customer Core </TD></TR><TR><TD width=350>$33.00 per Slider Customer Core</TD></TR><TR><TD width=350>New Slider Pricing Varies </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> At these prices I wouldn't consider DIY , you would spend many hours with a die grinder
I had Liberty Gears do the face plating on an A883 in a customers OT 69 Road Runner. I am pleased to report that it was a VERY nice working setup when it was done. Also the experience I had with Liberty Gears was OK but not outstanding. The time they estimated to have the work done and the actual time it took for me to get the pieces back was pretty far apart.
sorry, that is correct about using the steel shift fork in the 833 trans. I forgot to include that note. WE are going to attempt this ourself, due to the tight budget that we have for the drag car. 1970 dodge dart, 318, 904 trans, 8 3/4 rear with 4.30 gears on 9x26 street slick. Full interior, engine very mild with a xe268 cam and pathetic 8.7:1 .......We ran a best of 13.4 seconds. So this season a 416 (340 with 4"stroke) 833 with slick shift, dana 60 with 4.88 gears and 11x29 slicks. Ought to pick up a tad. ;-)
No one has addressed your second question about the verticle gate shifter. Go for it. I've used them in several different cars, street and race. Loved it, but wife hated it. Long still makes a version of this shifter.
I live a few miles from Liberty's and pass it on my way home everyday. It's a small shop with not very many employees.
now we know your plans and combo you may need to address other things. banging gears with a four speed mopar is fun but you need all the right parts. do you have the stock driveshaft or are you running something stronger. the larger yokes are a must both trans and rear end. if you have straps on the rear get rid of them. make sure you have a driveshaft loop. solid engine and trans mounts do wonders to keep your clutch linkage in their proper places. if you can afford it sell off the 8/34 before you destroy it and buy a dana. with the prices of 8 3/4 two blown ones equal one dana. you may end up money ahead making the switch. also have someone push in your clutch while you stand by the car looking at your firewall. depending on how strong the clutch is the firewall may flex and need reenforcement. if you run a snubber the floor may need the same. watch for damage and dents it will change your snubber to floor gap. a working rev limiter is a wise addition to even ronny sox missed a gear
Liberty makes some good parts and transmissions,I ran their "Pro-Shifted" Toploader for a few seasons..They are a small shop,very few employees,you send in your parts and get in line for the work to be done.You probably can do a version of a crash box yourself,but one screw up,or ruined gear/slider and the cost of Liberty doing the work will look cheap!I also used a Vertigate,great shifter,that and the trans are not street friendly! ROY.
I believe Hurst called their version a "RAM" shifter. Mr Gasket called theirs a "Vertigate". I had the Hurst "Ram" shifter in my '65 Chevelle. My buddy had the "Vertigate" in his '62 Chevy II. For us, they worked fine on the street.
You'll do fine with patience, I made a sheet metal protective shield that wrapped around the syncro teeth and only left the 1 I wanted to grind exposed. This helped eliminate the "O" S%@*T comments when slipping and catching the teeth I wanted to keep. I had a tech article but I can't find it, I'll keep looking.
Has anyone left the 1st gear brass synchro in when performing the slick shift mod? A synchro on 1st would make it easier to get the car into 1st when stopped in Neutral.
I wonder if it has to do with the Syncro Blocks or Struts? On my original crash boxes I machined the teeth off the "Brass" sycro rings and ran them.
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