Projects Let's talk this one out: '56 Buick build

Last fall I acquired a '56 Buick Roadmaster that I've been after for about 5 years. The short term goal is to make it a reliable cruiser by summer. The current 322 needs to come out and gone through so I have the front clip off and the engine/trans ready to be yanked. In order to achieve my short term goals I also need to go through the brake system, fuel supply system and rear axle. I found a 425 and ST400 setup out of a '65 Wildcat convertible for $600 if I pull it or I can get the whole car for $1600. So this gets me thinking about longterm goals with the car which are: upgrade the front brakes to discs, airbag suspension and install a more efficient/cheaper to work on transmission.

Here's the conundrum I'm in: Do I rebuild the 322, don't touch the trans and put the car back together for summer hoping that the trans will hold up? Swap in the 425/ST400 (which includes converting to open driveshaft along with a few other things)? Or spend my time & energy into swapping the '56 body onto the '65 chassis and be better setup for future upgrades?

I understand there is quite a bit of sheet metal work involved in such a swap but being that my '56 is already due for some floor pans, I could be addressing this at the same time of the swap. I looked around and found the wheelbase of the '65 is 126" and my '56 is 127" which I think is manageable. I'm a competent builder/fabricator but if there is something that I'm not taking into consideration here due to the countless routes I can take at this point, please guide me fellow HAMBers.

Here's the victim:

 

either the stock 322 or the 425 swap seams fine to me.....BUT, the frame swap sounds like a nightmare

 

And you want to drive it THIS summer?

 

This is called the snowball effect. It happens with everything I own.

 

To go through the 322 is over $800 is parts alone not including machine work. The 425 isn't a direct bolt in swap as it requires a different transmission, rear axle, rear suspension, specific exhaust manifolds...

I understand something like this might take a little while. I'm a patient guy and it won't kill me if it's not ready by summer. I don't see why it couldn't be though if I'm diligent.

 

Why screw up a nice 2 door hardtop by trying to put it on a frame that wasn't designed for it? The stock frame and suspension are fine on those Buicks. The wheelbase and track alone are probably bigger on the 65 as cars got larger as the decades went on.

As for the engine swap, what would you gain? You might run into the same issues with the new motor and have to rebuild that one.

Clean it up, fix the mechanicals, rebuild the motor and have the trans resealed. You will come out cheaper and not have a bastardized car that once was a very desirable body style. JMHO.

Don

 

As you stated, that is no easy swap. Id go with the rebuilt 322.

Maybe hold that 425 for your next project???

 

I agree with the others...don't do the body swap.

Easiest, fastest, and least expensive would be to rebuild your 322...and maybe get the trans gone through too. Then fix your floors.

But a '65/'66 425 Nailhead and SP400 (I believe you meant to say SP...Swithch Pitch) is a very desireable setup. Even if you don't put 'em in this car, I would grab 'em if you can. And $600 isn't a bad price...lots of guys would pay more for that particular combo.

It's true that doing drivetrain swaps on old buicks is more involved than with a lot of other old cars, because of the coil-spring rear suspension w/torque-tube. You lose everything. The torque-tube is the main "radius rod" for rr axle control. At least with rr leaf spring cars, swapping the rear axle is a bit easier. Some guys retain the rr coils, and use the complete swing-arm setup with the rear axle from another car, attaching the swing arms to additional crossmember(s). But you could also adapt a leaf spring setup, either from another car, or aftermarket, and that would probably be a little more straightforward than figuring out link location, etc. If you went this route, I'd probably try to find a car with leaf springs and the correct width axle, and swap in the whole deal. Can't remember...does the '65 Wildcat have leaf springs? Is the rr axle the right width for your car? If not, get the engine/trans, and find another setup from a different car.

That's all I've got. Good luck.

 

It aint cheap to be cool and visa-versa

 

^^Nailed it

 

Nope it is called the ST (Super Turbine) 400

 

I'd rebuild the 322 and drive the car.

 

i dont think youll drive that buick for a LONG time if you do the frame swap. its alot more invovled than is nessasary. rebuild the 322 re seal the trans and go for a ride. buy the 425 and set it in a corner for further use down the road.(in something else)

 

I'm with the others, fix the car as is. 322 is a good motor, if you have a shop that will work with you an overhaul might do it. Wont cost as much as a complete rebuild. Nice looking car don't get in over your head with a chassis swap.

 

Thanks fellas for bringing my head back down from the clouds. Sometimes when I get to planning, I realize all the work ahead of me and try to look at all the avenues to get the job done. I will gladly heed your advise and start with just going through the 322 Dynaflow. I will probably still pick up the 425 and ST400 fr a swap sometime down the road.

I'll keep ya posted with my progress, thanks again.

 

What Don said.^^^^^

 

Snowman, the 322 is capable of getting you all the speeding tickets you will ever need. The 56 and later 322s (they came in trucks and buses) have functional vibration dampers and better rods. Great set up for a fun cruiser. In considering your mechanical restoration plan, rebuild the engine at the same time as the trans. Since you have the front clip off, now is the time to paint and detail engine, transmission, firewall, inner fenders. This way, you will be back on the road quicker and have a major and difficult part of your upgrade plan done. Then you can wait till next winter to do something else if you want to. The 56 Supers and Roadmasters are really neat cars, as you already know.

 

Go with what you have, I would jump on that 425 for that amount and store it away it will always be worth 600.

 

Very good advice. Save it for later. Enjoy the summer cruising.
Have fun!

 

Wrong bunkie, there is a sp "switch pitch 400" I have one with a 401 going into my 55 special ...

 

The wheel base is not a problem to adjust or would be the least problem on the frame swap. You have not taken track width into account. I do not know for sure but I believe you are going to find that the track width on the Wildcat to be too wide for your '56.

You can upgrade the entire suspension on the '56 without ever swapping the chassis. The newer chassis will not be any easier to upgrade. You may look at the brakes on thw wildcat and decide that they are better brakes as in bigger and aluminum? It will have 12" brakes on all 4 corners as your roadmaster may not. That should be an easy swap to the roadmaster. You may even get the wildcat brakes on there and say, "Gee this is all the brakes I will ever need." And you will have bragging rights, who else has a '56 roadmaster with '65 Wildcat brakes.

If the 425 is a runner and I was shooting at cruising for the summer I would definately bel looking in that direction. Although not a bolt in the later Buick will provide the easiest route to better cruising.

 

In 64 buicks version of the the 400 was called super turbine 400 or ST400 and was not the switch pitch, but a different valve body configuration. In 65-67 the switch pitch was installed in the Buick super turbine 400 as well as the 2spd super turbine 300. (caddy and olds had a switch pitch too) By 69 GM 400 transmissions were just turbo hydramatic.

 

Yep, what they said. . . The 322 is a good little motor. If you have to rebuild it, you might be able to swap 364 heads onto it, for a litttle extra poop, or find a complete 364, like the one out of my 57 Century that is sitting on my garage floor. I beleave that these are a dirrect bolt in?? (Correct me if I'm wrong).
A couple years ago (read about 3 to 4), I pulled the frame out from under my 57 to repair the floors and fix the stress cracks in the front cross member. I found a pefect set of floor pans and trunk pan for replacement. In the process I've installed a built up early 401 (has the same motor mount location as the 364) and using a Doug Nash 5 speed. Frame is back, floors are fixed and engine is in. . . For the pedal assembly I used 3 different sets of Buick pedal assemblies to make a clutch and brake pedal that look factory, with hydro clutch. I'm still working on how I'm going to set up the rear. The plan is to use a stock '61 or '62 open drive and retain the coils and make some long trailing arms. I have a posi 3rd member I can use, but will need to find a complete differentail, as the axles from the 57 have larger splines the the posi unit.
Anyhow, I know everyones schedule is different and some have more time to devote than others, but everything I touch seams to take way longer then I wished it would. . . Maybe it's the attention deficit thing, and that I always have about 2 or 3 projects at once. Do what you are comfortable with, and have fun doing it.
Wish you well on getting it done.

 

Dave, the 322s have a unique bell housing bolt pattern. They do not interchange with the 364/401/425 blocks. Nailhead newbies can learn a lot by visiting buicks.net. Go to the forum, find the engine sub forum and click on nailhead section. There are a number of things that interchange and a lot more that do not. IMO the 56 Super/Roadmaster is a better candidate for a super cool cruiser than a "hot rod". They are huge and heavy. This is not meant as a derogatory comment, I love them, but it doesn't make a lot of sense to start with a heavy car if your goal is speed or quickness.

 

I am with the others. rebuild it. save the nail head for later use.

 

Just rebuilt a 322. Not cheap, spent about 5k and did all the assembly work myself. Engine runs great. Put it in a 51 meteor with a 5 speed behind it.

 

Just rebuilt a 322, not cheap. Spent about $5k and did all the assembly myself. Engine runs sweet. Put it in a 51 meteor with a 5 speed behind it. Old dynaflows did not have a great reputation, if you plan on driving any distance, i would go with the 425 and 400 combo

 

I'd buy the whole Wildcat if you had the room and scavange parts off of it. It's going to be a neat cruiser which ever way you decide to go. I like them big ol' Buicks. My Dad was a Cadillac man and my Mom loved her Buicks.

 

$5k? Holy shit! If that's the case I might lean towards getting the 425 & the 400 trans in there as the 425 is a running engine. I appreciate everyone's input and you've definitely swayed me away from considering any type of chassis swap. Looks like I need to get some numbers together as to how much each option would cost.

 

First off man congrats on getting that car that thing is RARE as shit, i know this because i own one myself and the only other one iv seen besides mine is Bobwops on here. anyways mines got a 401 with a th400 in it and converted to open drive shaft obviously. its alot of work but you have many options of how you can go about doing it ( ladder bars, 4 link, leaf springs, ect) one thing i will say is there is 0 reason to swap that frame, the buick rides excellent as is. once you put it together and start driving it you will see, lots of luck with it.