Suburban tow vehicle / everyday driver

Hey all -
First post here.

We're renovating a 1954 Airstream trailer in hopes of taking extended road trips, and I'm thinking about upgrading our tow vehicle. The trailer will be heavy and long enough that I'd like the V8 power and decent wheelbase of a Chevy Tahoe: we've towed with one in the past and it was a pleasure: like nothin' was back there.

The reason I'm posting this at the H.A.M.B. is... my hope is to blend the reliability and mechanics of a relatively modern SUV with the body of an older Suburban (I prefer 1954 to 1959 Carryalls and Burbs). On my wish list I'd also put many of the safety and conveniences (4WD, ABS, 3-point seat belts, fuel injection, etc).

And while I'm at it, flexibility: long road trips with the trailer, but just as many trips around town for groceries. It would be our sole vehicle for the foreseeable future.

So I'd greatly appreciate your ideas, suggestions, warnings, insults or links / photos of similar projects you've seen. You guys have hundreds of years of combined expertise, so I figure while I'm still in the daydreaming phase I'd try to get schooled.

I don't have a donor vehicle of either era yet, so that's a clean slate. I could find a well-cared for Tahoe to mate with an old body... or locate a clean 50's Burb and begin adding new parts one by one to the original chassis.

Cost will be a consideration, so if one method makes more sense than the other, I'd appreciate any thoughts on that, too.
Thanks all!

 

You need to do an introduction as your first post. Read the rules.

 

Sorry about that - I've put up an intro (must've missed the fine print, I thought the intro thread was optional).

 

i have a 59 chev panel truck a 1ton long wheelbase, i wanted to do the same thing a few years ago, i gave up on the idea at least for the time being.

the problem is making the new chassis fit and look right, getting the wheelbase close is not to much of a problem a club cab frame is close
the problem lies in the width (wheel track) and the height of body from the frame

inorder not to have the front wheel stick out and look like shit is to use a front clip from 2 1/2 ton truck, it will fit the surburban body and cover up the wider track. these are kind of hard to find. most often have to buy a old farm truck to get it.

the chevy pick up from 87-94 have the best fitting wheelbase and width, but these trucks are old and would need a total rebuild to use safely. this runs up the cost. the other option is a new van cowl chassis ( regular van does not work well) from gmc the frame is the flattest and comes with a dually option and diesel but this gets expesive to but then the frame is all new

it seems like alot but when towing a heavy trailer the suspension and fame has to be in perfect order, the stress of towing heavy and your safety is critical.

hope it helps

 

Putting a V8 in a '50s Burb is tight, due to the steering shaft but it is doable. It would be interesting (and probably easier) to swap the body onto a Tahoe chassis.

 

Putting a V8 in a 55-59 suburban is easy, they came with them as an option.

I'm not into the abs/efi/4wd/latemodelcomputercrap stuff myself....I'd keep it mostly original, with an engine/rearend update to make it more towing and highway friendly. But I've been driving these old trucks for decades, and I'm used to the steering/stopping/etc difference. If you can only drive late models, then you might need all those features, but it would be a shame to mess up yet another rare old truck with that modern stuff.

 

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=426382

Check out this thread. One of the best builds I have watched as this guy built my dream O/T hauler but he did what u r lookin for.

Additionally we will have a 5.3 liter/4speed 4L60 combination. All of this will be mounted on a 2001 Chevy truck frame with rack and pinion steering,4 wheel ABS disc brakes, etc.

This truck wasn't 4x4 but that is probably the easiest to work out.
Good luck

Sorry for posting OT stufd

 

dont worry what others think, you wont go to hell for a mistake, some people just like to gripe.

 

I know they're not "traditional" in the sense of this forum, but the '67-'72 Burbs make a wonderful tow vehicle, and don't take much work from what they are stock. I use my '69 for a daily driver, parts runner, and tow vehicle with great success. It's comfortable and easy to work on. The 350/TH400 gets pretty good mileage, even with the 12 posi and 3.73 gears. Headers, full duals, and Edelbrock intake, with small Holley.
Mine has been converted to later 5x5" bolt pattern and power disc brakes, with HD swaybars front and rear. Interior is 2001 Durango electric leather buckets and folding rear bench. (for more hauling room when folded) Put a 8,000 lb. hitch on the back, and a decent stereo system.
The whole project, including purchase price off Craigslist is still under $3,000! I was looking at newer Burbs for towing, but couldn't begin to get this much truck for so little.

 

Some good suggestions here - nice to see where some of you stand.

1950ChevySuburban, thanks for your take on which method would be easier. I thought a perfectly running newer Tahoe with the body replaced (obviously giving up pillar-mounted airbags and other body-mounted stuff, but that's ok) would be easier as well.

I just haven't found many examples of this kind of swap yet... hell, probably partly because it's a difficult thing to search for in Google.

Squirrel, I respect your viewpoint very much; in my other hobbies (antique wooden canoes, letterpress printing, and other old stuff) I'm much more aligned to your thinking - originality is wonderful and I do feel a need to respect the time and place things are from.

Being that I'm attempting to incorporate something like this into my daily needs - reliability, safety, etc., I will probably deviate on this project.

That said, I've never been terribly interested in chopped, frenched, shaved-door handle cars... so my dream would be that regardless of what it winds up looking like in the cabin or under the hood -- that heading down the road it would be very, very original in appearance.

gasmanm01, right on - and I'm sure I'll make mistakes, but I admire all you guys' interest and passion in this hobby.

Handmedown40limited and 1971BB427, great suggestions. Emotionally I'm too stuck to the notion of matching the era of my trailer to seriously consider the '67-'72 era, but I appreciate the details of your project. Perhaps with extra work I could make some of these changes to an older Burb.

 

Great ideas here, thanks! I'll definitely take a look at the donor vehicles you mention. I'd only gotten as far as seeing that the 50's and 90's-2000's Tahoes had similar 116" wheelbases in many instances, but hadn't given any thought to width or flatness of the frame.

 

The 54-first series 55 Subs are just one-piece windshield open drive 47 2nd-53 Subs.
The 55 2nd-59 Subs already came with optional V8s and if a GMC with an Olds V8.
They are roomier than than their earlier cousins too.

 

If you want to do it half way, you could add a subframe and rearend from a 70s Camaro, and use a modern engine and transmission. Then you'd have disk brakes, power steering, and the engine reliability/mileage you're looking for, but without the hassles of ABS and having to deal with the body mount problem.

This is actually something I'm thinking of doing to my 57 suburban, if my brother decides he wants it. It already has the subframe, but I was planning on running a 70s style big block/th400 in it, with a carb. He'd like something like an LS type engine, either an early LS1 or a truck motor from the past decade.

We don't have many late model vehicles in our family..but one of them is a 99 silverado, and it has ABS issues.

 

This isn't hard at all.
My daily driver is a '61 Chevy Suburban. I've added a 350 crate motor, 4spd Manual overdrive trans, 3.42 gear posi rear, and power brakes with a dual reservoir master cylinder.

From everything I've ever heard or read, Airstreams tow VERY easily. Hell, they used to use a man towing one on his bicycle as a logo... they actually had an olympic bicyclist tow one for a publicity stunt in the '50s.
So with that in mind, 4wd or AWD isn't really needed.

You will also have a fair amount of difficulty installing anti-lock brakes. There just aren't any good, easy-to-install, reliable aftermarket ABS kits that I've found, and I haven't seen a lot of builds successfully adapt OE anti-lock brakes.

I can't speak to the issue of a V8 in a pre-'55 truck, but it'd be simple in a '55-up truck--Aftermarket kits and trans crossmembers are readily available.

I'm sure there are modern front suspension kits available as well--swap in subframes, etc. etc. Pretty much everything you want to do is a phone call away.

I'm going to re-do mine with a 4.8 or 5.3 LS engine with EFI, and I haven't decided if I'm going to keep the manual OD trans, or go with an automatic.
I've put more than 50,000 miles on the thing as it sits, driving it through 17 states. I plan to tow my race car with it, and the only upgrade I need is front disc brakes. I believe the rest is up to the task.

Go with a heavy-duty radiator, electric fan (pull, not push), and a fan shroud. I have a big mechanical clutch fan on mine... it costs some MPG, but I never have to worry about an electric fan dying and leaving me overheated.

Good luck with the build! Sounds good.

-Brad

 

I recently sold our '63 Airstream Ambassador. It was 28' long. It was huge, but was easier to tow than our 18' car trailer. I would think that upgrading a 50s suburban with bolt-ons would be enough to safely pull and stop the trailer. Especially if you made sure you had good trailer brakes. A front clip from a camaro could really open up the brake choices too. I remember a test I read of a '28 foot ambassador like ours and the vehicle they tested it with was a '59 Olds 98 and apparently it towed great with that car.

 

Squirrel - this sounds very cool, very doable. A great compromise. BTW, if your brother doesn't want that '57 - it looks like you've done a lot of the hard work. Perhaps I could simply pick up where you've left off!

Brad, sounds like a great daily driver - another great solution. Yes Airstreams are easy to tow: I'll probably have 400 lbs. of tongue weight, under 3000 lbs. in the trailer, and a Hensley hitch to keep it all in line. Our current tow vehicle is a v6 Toyota Highlander Hybrid of all things, and it pulled our last trailer of similar weight beautifully all over the country.

I did experience V8 envy in some climates though (like steep, twisty sections of Hwy 1 in northern California), and this vehicle would satisfy that.

Rev, great suggestions. Happy to see another 'Streamer on here, too. Yes, we'll be putting a new axle on the trailer with discs and hardware in our Tekonsha brake controller, so that half of the equation should be great.

When you think about it, I'm simply re-joining two vehicles that would've been compatible when they were made anyhow. But in knowing the limitations of my mechanical knowledge, and the importance of not breaking down all the time... I really want as many ultra reliable components in this thing as I can reasonably manage.

In hunting around, I did find this one thread with a similar project: guy took a '53 Suburban and grafted the body onto a 2002 GMC Envoy. Pretty neat, though it looks like a LOT of work:

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=348244

 

Ultra reliable and traditional hot rod don't really go together...part of the fun of driving something old is that you get to maintain it and fix things occasionally. At least it is for me.

Before you get too far along on the whole chassis swap thing, think about how you want the wheels/tires to fit in the wheelwells. The track width of the later model trucks is generally several inches wider than those of the 50s.

 

Yeah, Revhead, Brad54 and others (including you) seem to lean towards upgrading an existing original one, albeit with front clip and rear end modifications. With a new crate motor and other bolt-on additions, I wonder if this isn't the more direct way from point A to point B.

Also, given my already limited knowledge and budget, farming out much of this work to a professional is something I need to factor it.

And please don't suggest I skip the whole idea and buy a new Chevy HHR instead. I would not be satisfied with that solution.

 

I disagree. My Suburban has been ultra-reliable. I've had a new fuel pump fail, and some brake issues that were my fault for some (I put the damn rear shoes on backwards! And didn't realize it for a looooong time), and some were the fault of parts--brake material came off the shoe in Daytona.

But really, it's pretty much been 50,000 miles of not much difficulty.

If you keep things simple, and buy proven upgrade parts (for a novice), there's no reason a traditional hot rod can't be ultra reliable.

Especially if you don't cheap-out on everything, OR you don't try to go too trick on everything. The "KISS" principle works--keep it simple, stupid.

To the OP: The very, very first thing you need to do right now, is get a subscription to Classic Trucks and Custom Classic Trucks magazine and start looking at all the stories AND ADS in them.
It wouldn't hurt to look through Rod & Custom as well.
Familiarize yourself with what's out there.
Trucks are VERY simple to work on... as in, they were utilitarian, and basic.

After you go through the mags, start going to the websites of the advertisers and start looking at their parts on there, and familiarize yourself with them.

Those two things, combined with a lot of web surfing, will make you a lot more comfortable going forward.

It's like anything else in life: research yourself, and get suggestions from others who know what they're doing.
NEVER simply rely on other people to make the decisions for you.

With a reasonable budget, there's no reason in the world you can't achieve your goals here.

-Brad

 

Not to derail a great pro-con discussion of which Burb is best with which engine... but I wanted to quickly update you all that we ditched the old Suburban scheme... and bought a 1953 Chrysler Town & Country wagon, instead.

It's currently all original, with a flathead V6 (the New Yorker trim had the Hemi V8, from what I understand). So I'll be using it as is for the next couple months.

After a while, perhaps I'll entertain the thought of a new V8 crate motor (I suppose Karma would insist I stick with MOPAR now), disc brakes, shoulder belts, perhaps aftermarket A/C, some soundproofing and interior upgrades, perhaps a cleverly hidden rear camera for easy hitching, and stiffer rear springs to accommodate our 3000 lb. trailer.

But thus far, I'm just excited about getting to know it, and figuring out how we can enjoy it as it sits today.

 

Sounds like fun!

It will have a straight 6, not a V6.

I'd look into making sure the brakes are working well. They had a not so good design of brakes on many old Mopars, so be careful driving.

 

Why not find an early Hemi for it?

 

Traditionally, Airstreams were towed by Cadillacs. And, as I well know, a Cadillac makes a GREAT tow vehicle, esp. with a 472/500 - TH400 combo.

As to ABS, TCS, ESP, THiT, etc., if you can't fix it yourself, and it breaks down somewhere west of Laramie*, who IS going to fix it?? A Chevy garage might try, more likely they'll shoo you away for liability reasons. So don't put it on. What's not there can't break.

Cosmo

*Ned Jordan.

 

Thanks for the warning on brakes... that's one reason I'd really like to upgrade the drums to discs, especially being that we want to tow with it (Airstream will have new disc brakes). RLD, an early Hemi would be really cool... there seem to be a few around from that era.

Cosmo, good point. I'll now really need to start learning a lot about cars, or at least this one. I wasn't raised learning this stuff... it just wasn't instilled in me and wasn't a hobby I picked up until now. No reason I can't catch up, though. I won't attempt ABS, airbags or much computer-controlled nonsense, but I think I'd like to consider a modern engine with fuel injection and a really strong transmission.

I'll absolutely stick with an all-stock appearance, though.

 

Picked up our Town & Country yesterday in Rochester, NY. We're slowly making our way back to Chicago... and have had plenty of 'thumbs ups' along the way so far...

The other Craigslist find of the trip was the circa 1913 B.N. Morris wood and canvas canoe.

 

U-haul let you rent that car trailer with that small SUV? I thought they had a policy that it must be a full size 1/2 tone or larger?

Your new T&C looks pretty nice.

 

My every day vehicle is a 1950 GMC Panel truck . Same body as the suburban. It is mounted on a 1990 GMC full size pick up truck chassis and drivetrain. 5.7liter , automatic,4wd, ect. The length and the width of the frame were perfect and required no modification at all. If I were to put stock steel wheels on it most people would not even know that it was not original. I use it to pull our 20ft fiberglass deck boat that sits on a 25 ft tandem axle trailer. Gross weight of around 4000lbs plus I believe.
I used the pickup chassis because I wanted leaf springs instead of the coil rears springs on a suburban.
PM me with your e-mail and I will send you pics if you want.

 

You pulled that with that little shitbox??

 

A 413 with OD would haul nicely.

 

Torchie / Straightpipes,

LOL - I was waiting for that... it just wouldn't be right to slide a shot of a Japanese hybrid pulling Detroit iron without some consequences.

Yes, UHaul rented it to me, albeit with a little head-scratching. We had the hitch upgraded for 5000 lbs. a couple years ago, so the connection is good and the Toyota's V6 has been just fine. We don't get much over 50 MPH on the highway, or you start to get a little sway but all in all, it's actually a solid combo for this 1K mile trip back home.

I just wouldn't wanna do it on a regular basis and am looking forward to being home and unhitched.

Slammed, thx for the suggestion of a 413, I'll put that on the list of possibilities. I'd heard the 318 mentioned a few times as a possible good combo as well, but whatever will fit / get decent MPG / be reliable and relatively quiet will work great.

I certainly don't wanna hot rod... just a balanced daily driver / tow vehicle.