I just recently got a 1956 Olds that I just wanted to do regular maintance to it, but then decided to get another core motor that I could rebuild on the side and then just swap into the Olds. So I found a 1955 324 here on the HAMB ang got it delivered yesterday. Here I'd like to document the rebuild and hopefully some of you guys can give me some advice to go in the right direction with it. Last time I had a shop do the whole rebuild thing, but that was a pretty bad experience... still on the truck: Some concern, the freeze plugs in the heads are gone: The Olds an it's future heart: Got a nice Edmunds intake to put on: Now the fun part of tearing it apart begins...
Not of concern, as the head plugs did rust out from sitting. Also the real small ones on the sides of the heads below the valve covers, do rust out if left sitting. I gotta ask a question on your 56 swap. Is your car a base model 56 88 with the older hydramatic? or is it a Jetaway? Does it show a "P" for park? I ask, because the cranks are supposed to be different, at the pilot bushing area.
Good question. Glad you bring this up. The motor in the car has a Jetaway tranny. This motor is from 1955 so that must be different then. I'll have to come up with the dimensions so I can get the crank machined then. Do you have them by any chance?
someone will correct me if I'm wrong but I think the issue would be if you wanted to use the later crank with the earlier or standard transmission as the jetaway did not use a pilot bushing.
Found this in the manual: The crank bore sure looks different. What do need to be aware of, when I split motor and transmission? I read something about a torus?
I've never seen the difference myself, but a hamber in Germany was posting here about getting a trans shipped from the US, and it would not fit his crank. I don't recall which trans or which crank he had, but both were around 55 or 56 I think.
of the dozen or so Olds cranks I have only two are 324 the '55 originally had the Hydramatic and the '56 had a stick. I'm using the '55 in the '56 block because it only needed a pollish to make it right the cutaway view there does make it look like the jetaway needed a deeper large recess than the stick crank, whether that relates to the Hydramatic I do not know.
The manual only talks about Jetaway or synchro mesh. No note on the hydromatic. Anybody else out there with a '56 jetaway crank? Would the '57 and up crank look different? Didn't they all use the Jetaway tranny?
Dave, the current engine is somewhat alright, but I wouldn't trust it going to Austin for example. I'll probably drive it to Williamsburg in April, but will be lucky if everything goes well. Right now it doesn't start. Not sure yet what the problem is. Most likely bad fuel pump. Did I say: Tearing a motor apart was fun? I guess I have to rethink that statement. This is the second motor for me, and after the first one I thought it couldn't get any worse. The first one being a flathead. Man, was I wrong. I can see now why somebody would want to sell this motor. (I'm not saying the guy that sold it to me, knew about the condition) The good news, I didn't break a single bolt. The bad news: Can you find the cam The bores look pretty good despite all the sludge. Also, there was more water draining, when I pulled the plug, than oil What's the best way to get the distributor out? I want to send it out to Bubba for a rebuild. But I wasn't able to move it a bit... Please, somebody tell me they fixed worse than this!
My only concern is why there was water in the pan. Was it outside without an oil cap or valve covers off? The sludge is from non-detergent oil, short trips, and when the old cars started to burn oil when they were "old and worthless", the owners just added oil, never changed it very often. Many hambers have saved Rockets that had all 8 pistons frozen with serious rust, and had pitted bores. Soak around the distributor base from the outside and inside with PB Blaster for a couple of days, then a little tapping should get it to move.
Yeah, while I'd never expect to see a modern engine look like that, most of the '50s engines I've ripped apart had similar sludge formation in them. I don't think that Edmunds dual intake will cover the ports on a 324 head, though.
Lol Welcome to the world of restoration and hotrodding of vintage powerplants This motor your showing is somewhat of the normal for a core I'm sure youve seen some of my tricked out builds This is how the new life starts... Just remember ....if this shit was easy everybody would do it Good luck,let me know if you need something Tony
Thanks guys, that makes me feel better about the whole thing. It didn't look like the motor was sitting outside. All the covers were on, the valve cover was loose (no bolts) but that shouldn't be a problem, right? There was no breather on the carb. The carb is frozen up too! HEATHEN, there is a nice trick I've found on here: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7336604&postcount=59 1/8 inch aluminum spacer plate! Thanks Tony! I haven't forgotten to call you. Have been busy moving and wanted to get the motor in first, so we can actually talk facts and not assumptions
Better sludgy than dry! I know a local old timer that has many Olds motors, all dry and seized! I have a nice Edelbrock 3x2 for that motor.
Correct. I just replied to the same request on a PM here 2 days ago. Duh, I thought it was the OP, but I just looked and it was someone else with a 324 with an Edmunds Here is my reply to him: "Page 3 post # 59 of my build thread shows the aluminum adapter plates i made.http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...es#post7336604. What these plates do, is makes the Edmunds narrower manifold be able to cover the outer edges of the taller 324 ports on the heads. These plates have a 324 intake gasket under them, and then put a 303 intake gasket on top of them. They are .120" (or 1/8") thick aluminum, as it cuts easier than steel plates. I got my metal from the scrap yard for $2. Then I used my old horizontal milling machine, but you can just drill 4 corner holes for each port, and then use a saber saw to cut out the rectangles. Use both sizes of gaskets for your pattern...easy. They don't need to cover the rear water jacket plates, just make them long enough to do the intake manifold. When using the stock 4 screw-in center studs, you might want to screw the two on one side, in later, because the intake might not slide over all 4 at once. I just filed the intake a bit."
Pete, wanna make a donation for the build? Seriously, I got a 2x2 for it. Didn't want to spend to much on the carbs, and it's going in a hooded car. You are right about the sludge, it's just a pain to deal with. What do you guys recommend, how should I clean it out? I did put PB Blaster around the distributor base, and kerosene into the cylinders. Let it soak over night, and see what happens.
Dave, the carb that's on the car right now, is some oddball 2GC rochester. The carb that came with the new motor is the small base type, and I'll try to reuse it. How can I tell if I have a buildable core? Another question: do I need to drain the transmission before I pull it from the engine? Is it going to leak like crazy when I do that? The reason I'm asking, I'm not going to do anything with it right now, and I'd like to store it with the fluid in it, to prevent rust.
That odd carb is called a Powerjet. On the 55 carb; take the carb top off to see if it sat with water in it and is full of white corrosion. On the trans; The only way to remove the trans fron engine is to drain the torus with the small drain plug. Then you have to take off the 32 bolts to split the torus...then the trans will be disconnected as soon as those bolts are removed. The torus may look like a converter that just slides out, but it won't/can't. The front of the torus is like a flywheel and it is bolted to the crank from the inside, so you must split the torus apart.
How do I get to the 32 bolts? It that the slotted cover that's right behind the bell housing, on top of the transmission? When I drain the torus, is that the only location fluid drains from? So there is still ATF in the rest of the transmission, right?
You can drain the pan. If the dipstick tube is still installed, you would get a lot of ATF oil out of there, if you took the tube off without draining the pan.
Good information there, thanks Frank! Now since the engine is locked up, what would be the steps to do next? I mean I can't turn the crank. Should I try to get the pistons out first? For some reason I feel like the cam might be the issue. I also can't move the lifters...
If the motor is stuck, you'd pull the trans with the crankshaft still attached. Not kidding. But those pistons don't look bad at all, so if they are stuck, maybe just one or two? Cam/lifters: It will be difficult to get a good bite with pliers on the hardened lifter tops to get them to pull up a bit. Even if the lifters are not stuck in the bores, there will be a ridge of gunk and varnish at the bottom of each lifter. Soak the heck out of the lifter top and bottom if you can, then keep working them up and down to gradually knock the varnish off, then they come out. Once you have them out, pull the dist out. To slide the cam out, or at least know if the cam is stuck; which I doubt.... get the chain off, pull the 3 bolts to take the gear off, which pulls the top of the chain off with it. Two screwdrivers behind the cam gear, and rock it off. If the motor still won't turn yet, after soaking the bores from tops and bottoms a few days, get a wood block to tap each piston, while someone holds a little pressure on a bar against the flywheel ring gear. Then try the bar from both sides, to go both ways, trying for just a few thou' each way, and keep doing that.
Thanks, I'll try that! Another question: what parts do I need to make sure I keep in order? Do I need to number the pistons even though I'll use new ones? Or just to make sure the connecting rods go back to the same location? Lifters will be replaced, right? How about valves, push rods, valve springs, rockers,... ? Sorry, but that's my first real try at it... Thanks, Martin
On the rods, before removing the caps; the cap must stay with "that" rod, and the cap must go on in the same orientation to the rod. (the cap can sometimes fit, if turned around by mistake, but the bearing won't be aligned) So, mark each rod right above the cap with the cyl number, and do the same with the cap. Mark them both on the same side of the rod before you remove them, then when you put them back, you will know which cap fits which rod, and which way the cap needs to be installed. By the way, the rods have an oil hole on one side near the rod bearing, to feed the piston bore and pin. Those need to point up there ^ . So, that means that because most any car piston does have a "front", you will have 4 pistons/rod ass'ys with the oil hole pointing one way in relation to the front of the piston, and the other 4 will be opposite. Olds stock lifters have plagued me since 1965... You'd think I'd learn by now. The 2 Rockets I have right now have lifter bleed down. One is so bad that right as you shut the motor off with no valve covers on, you can see all the valves close in 2 or 3 seconds I need new lifters from Ross Racing. I don't want iffy parts from an unknown source. As long as they are not worn beyond specs. or rust-pitted, they can be reused. Look closely for rocker shaft wear, especially at the bottoms where you might see "galling" from lack of oil. It looks like a smeared mini weld spot that you can feel. Also, you must knock out the end plugs on each end of the rocker shaft to clean out the crud. They look like a mini "freeze plug". The 1955 rocker arm has better rocker oil hole system, than 56 with many holes,IMO....just from seeing what I have seen on mine. Based only on that, not really fact. You'd better check with Tony at Ross on that, if you need new rockers, though.
Trying to remember all this info for when I need it... Ordered one of those valve train organizer trays. That should help. Didn't get a whole lot done today: Took the timing chain off. Cleaned the valley out a bit. Got 3 lifters removed. Still not able to get the distributor out. It spins a little, but won't come out. Got the starter, oil filter and road draft tube off. Finally took the oil pan off: Also took the cover off the carb. Here is what it looks like inside: And finally got to take pictures of the serial numbers: Hopefully tomorrow I'll get some more stuck parts loose...
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