Howdy folks, Started the restoration of my grandpa's '41 Ford Pickup hot rod this last Monday with Classic Street out in Taylor, TX. Tear down was completed on Wed of last week and a few welds on the frame and bed bracing have been completed prior to blasting, which is scheduled for this week. I need to order my chassis components tomorrow and make a decision on a rear end. I sure could use the HAMB's help. I've researched back and forth about this and I'm completely torn on I-beam split wishbone vs MII. I know the traditionalists like the split wishbone, but the MII sounds like a nice ride and is super simple. It really comes down to price at this point since I'm on a budget. Thing is, they both seem to be about the same since I'd want a new leaf up front. Planning to run 6" tires up here, likely on the stock axle if I stick with the I-beam. Thoughts? On the rear end, I'm thinking of using an Explorer 8.8 with 3.73 gears behind a Muncie M20 4sp since I'm likely going to keep and rebuild the current 283 Super Turbo Fire V8. Would have to do the driver side narrowing job and swap in a passenger axle, but it seems to be the least expensive path to a solid posi rear end. I do have a correct width 8" Ford available for $200, but non-posi and the low gear ratio is not going to be very good for a high winding 283. Parts to convert the 8" seem to be way more expensive than the whole 8.8, plus I'd get free disc brakes on the back end with 95+ year models. Should be about 57" wide all said and done. Planning to run 8" meat back here. Any and all thoughts and ideas are welcome, and thanks in advance for your opinions and advice! Best, Trey
Cool truck. 8.8 rears are junk.I would use the 8" or find a 9" . Since your truck has fenders go with mustang 2 if that's what you want. If you go with a drop axle split thw wish bone as little as nessairy, if you go to the outside of the frame your turning radius will be shot! I have seen guys use 4 bar front ends to .
Cool project-as stated forget Explorer and 3:73 seem on the low side unless running a 5 speed. hate to say it but, Must II in the long run will be good if you really are going to drive it. keep us posted.
Since it appears you already have a front axle I don't see how it would be the same price as a Mustang II v/s keeping the I-beam. Split the bones, have your axle dropped and remove some leaves, new kingpins, tie rods ect, it will sit and drive fine. Even if you upgraded to a disc brake kit for your axle it should be cheaper the a new Mustang II kit. 6" wheels will be tight with either set up if it sits low and like Mastergun said, split the bones as little as possible, not just for turning radius but it will ride better as well. Posi for an 8" will be tough to find, not very common unless you buy new ($$$). I'd look for a Granada 9" and add a gear and posi to it or save some bucks and buy a complete rebuilt pumpkin and be done for good with the rear, you'll be happy and it will serve you well for a long time.
The quotes I'm getting are from JPL for Chassis Engineering and Heidt's stuff. They seem to be about the lowest prices around. With a dropped/narrowed front axle, new leaf (since the old one is 70+), new king pins, tie rod ends, disc brakes, wishbone kit, etc it's roughly the same price as the complete MII kit. My drop is not going to be very aggressive - maybe 2" maximum. I've been told by a few sources that it should support 6" meat up front. Has anyone had a different experience with a 2" drop? I really would prefer a Ford 9", but the prices for posi rears are just too high - I'm on a budget. Maximum $1k for a ready-to-go with brakes posi rear end, and it would really be beneficial to come in under budget so there's more money for body and paint. With a 283, an 8" Ford will be plenty - it's just a matter of finding an inexpensive posi pumpkin with high enough gearing to support the higher rpm power band motor. With the narrowed Explorer 8.8, I'm well within budget with money to spare having only the added labor expense for moving the perches to a 42" spread since I can narrow it myself. Not to mention I'd get a centered basket - the slight Ford 8" offset messes with my OCD. Still, I'd be happy to go that route over the 8.8 if the opportunity presented itself at a reasonable price. Trey
Looks like a nice starter project. Protect those rear fenders. They are almost imposable to find these days. I went with the Mavrick 8" and they are plenty strong and will take the high winding 283. The Granada 8" is just a bit wider but will work with 8" rims on the rear. Here is a link to my 40 pickup build. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=527407 I also did a tech on rear springs and hangers. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=557363
i dont understand how people say 8.8 ford is junk....there are cars running 7's in the quarter on them with a set of axles full spool and a girdle.the fact that they are plentiful and mustangs came with posi is a no brainer to me. i saw an explorer disc rear this weekend at a swap meet for 150.
Didn't mean to mislead you, A 6" rim will go but will be tight, be carefull on wheel offsets. Depends on what style of rim you choose a 5" fits better. The narrowed axle will help. I just did a 40 with a Chassis Engineering Must II kit and put 15x6 Cragers on it, they clear but he has to be carefull going up driveways, ect or they'll rub a little. Still think you'll have a hard time finding a used 8" posi with decent gear, if you have to buy new I'd go 9", not enough price difference. Used posi 9" are more commen as well. Since your on a budjet the 8.8 might be your best bet after all.
For what it's worth... I've got a dropped '40 axle in my '40 coupe with a reversed eye spring and Pete & Jakes split wishbone kit (running a turbo 350, so I needed the space) I have 15x5 American's with 165/80/15 tires on it. The dropped '40 axle that I have wasn't stretched wider, so it tucks the tires into the fender wells a little nicer than on my truck. My '40 stake bed has a stock axle and wishbone setup, with a Posies 42 3/8" wide spring, and has 6" rims up front, with some fat 215/70/15's. I did see some 185/80/15's that I would consider, for extra room. Since I am running REALLY tall 235/85/16's on the back, I chose not to put a dropped axle under the front and leave it sit a bit higher, to avoid looking too cartoonish with the rake. I drive my cars quite a bit and those who have ridden in my coupe are always surprised at how nice it rides. I also chose to go with readily available tire sizes that I can get anywhere. The spring, with shackles should run you somewhere in the neighborhood of $225 or so, delivered to your door. Pictures for visual reference
as for ride quality, there is almost no difference between a straight axle and a mustang 2 when installed correctly. i have had both, and have put many a mile on both. here is a '40 pickup with a straight axle we did.
If you are wanting to stay beam axle, try the Speedway 4-bar setup - I have it in my coupe for over 9 years and it's in my own 40 p-up project - great riding FE and it "clears out the middle" for ease of tranny removal underneath.
You already have the perfect front axle, you just need to do a little work to it. Sid at droppedaxles.com will drop it 4” for $200; that will narrow it 2” as well. You have the good hydraulic brakes on there, just rebuild them, screw the discs. Are you positive you need a new spring? You can reverse the spring eyes yourself, there is info in the tech section, you are not really re-shaping the eyes, just curving the spring arch backwards. Get the $85 split wishbone/trans mount kit from Speedway and your done. Maybe under $500? DEFINITLEY cheaper than Mustang II.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
I agree with bbr, 8.8's are tough. They are good on our 5.60/eighth car with no problems. With a 283, you'll never have a problem.
Dropped axle on this one with 5" rims and still rubs when my wife is with me. Let me rephrase that, when anyone is with me and only when going through gutters and turning.
Exactly. King pins, shackels, tie rods ends, new shocks, wishbone splitter, everything to rebuild your axle around $250 (Speedway) Add $200 (well probably 250 with shipping) to drop your axle and yeah, your at $500. Even if you wanted disc brakes good kits are $300 so your at $800. Pop a few bucks more and get a CE x-member center with the wishbone mounts and it all bolts in for arond $1000. From the Speedway catalog again a Heidt "econo" kit with standard oem style control arms, ect is $1450. The only way a beam would cost as much as a Mustang is if you bought everything new but you don't need to, your axle, wishbone, spindels and spring unless bent or damaged (these don't really wear out) should work fine. Nobody has mentioned the steering box but if your is worn out it's rebuildable, I think the parts ran around $250 to rebuild the one in my 40 and it wasn't hard to do. You'll spend that much on u-joints, shafts and a steering column to hook up the Mustang rack.
mj40’s – I have read both of your threads top to bottom prior to joining the forum. They are super educational and I learned a bunch reading them. I would like to do the GM front spings on the back to save some dough, but I’d need a pair within about 2 weeks, so I’m thinking I’m prolly stuck with ordering new from CE. Thanks gents, you’ve collectively saved my front crossmember – I’m sticking with the solid axle. Richard D – I called Sid, and he’s headed down to Austin in 2 weeks, so shipping is gonna be free. This forum is fantastic! Thanks guys! Trey
Is there any reason I'd want to keep the wishbone intact? And can't I drop the front end about an inch by just reversing the spring eyes without altering the axle?
If you plan to install a later model V-8 and auto trans, you need to split them(someone jump in if Im wrong). Not all the way to the frame rail, just a bit. Speedway(and probably a dozen others) sells a kit for $132, #702-2320 on page 136. * Sids a good guy. Oakie Joe does his Model A axles; he dropped two nice ones for me, and a buddy of his that travels out there to and from Houston brought them down for me so I didnt have to pay shipping.
Richard D, that is why I have split bones in my coupe. I am running a turbo 350, and the pan sits too deep and wide to fit between stock bones. A standard tranny should fit nicely in between them without having to split them.
Only reason that I had asked is that it appears that the kingpin width is a little wider than what is on my coupe. I've got a dropped '40 axle that I bought from Speedway, back around 1980 or so, and the kingpins were pulled in about an inch each side, giving a little more clearance with the lip of the fender. On Sid's site, he has a picture of a stock '40 axle, and a dropped one with 46 1/2" kingpin to kingpin (like my coupe's) and then one that is stretched to the stock width. Trey, make sure you ask Sid for his recommendation on the width. If you plan on running discs in the future, it may cause you to want the narrower drop, but it will require narrowing the drag link and tie rod. I don't know if you have to when running the stock width drop, with dropped bolt on spindle arms.
Glad to see another 40/41 pickup being saved. I run a MII setup on mine, I have two hot rods, one with MII and one with 46" IBeam and spit wish bones. The MII is a nicer smother ride to me. But don't forget you tire selection means a lot to your ride. (radial or bias ply) You can run a wider front tire if you run a 46" striaght axle. I run 4.5 inch rims on the front of mine and have no rubbing issues with the MII, and mine are tucked up pretty good. Have fun, you will enjoy the results.
Love all of the trucks guys, thanks for sharing pics and what you did - it helps a lot on formulating a plan moving forward. Here's the complete list of front end goodies from JPL: Front Swaybar Slider buttons Trans Kit (#ES-2167) Shock kit Complete disc brake kit All CE except disc brakes, total $830.00 And here's the rest of the goodies for the back end plus my new firewall and forward floor pan: Rear Leaf Kit -HD Spring option -Spring Pad Add On Rear Sway Bar CE Motor Mounts Direct Sheetmetal Firewall Direct Sheetmetal Front Floor kit Total $2,163.00 front and rear components combined with firewall and fwd flr kits. Still have to add the axle drop and rebuild components to that total. Sound like a deal? Thanks, Trey
Is there a good picture thread on the HAMB showing an M20/Manual tucked up into the stock wishbone set-up? One thing I noticed is that my grandpa left the flywheel cover off, maybe b/c it was rubbing? Would like to see how it goes together before I write-off the split bones. Thanks!
Nice ride !! If on a budget, stick with beam axel. The're strong, anything you'd need for it is readily available. Be sure to thoroughly inspect the frame....Especially where the "X" member meets the rails in the rear area. I found some of them were badly rusted. Good thing is, there are '40 -"41 truck frames around, and those are the same as '40 pass cars. 4TTRUK
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