History We ALL Love a DARE! PIX of TRULY Extinct Makes?

I might spend more time on the HAMB than working on projects, but I just can't help it, so much great stuff to read. Just today this mystery was solved thanks to a post over on The Old Motor website, another I visit every day. Bob http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=200438&highlight=mystery

 

I believe I can add one more to the list of the truly extinct makes.

The Joslyn Electric. Sadly I do not have a picture, and I doubt one exists.

In the 1970's I was helping out an elderly woman who had had a stroke. Her name was Gladys Joslyn. Among the things hanging in her home, was a framed stock certificate, and turn of the century car advertisement from a magazine. The NEW Joslyn Electric!

Part of her rehabilitation was speaking - she lost motor control of her left side almost completely. So I listened to a lot of history. A tough old girl, she had driven ambulances in World War I in France. She had a couple of photos of herself with a 1 ton truck ambulance in mud up to the ankles.

Her husband had been in the car business most of his life. He was a Packard dealer at one time, and was (she said) the exclusive agent for the Jordan Automobile.

The electric was a short lived company that failed with the start of the war? Her stories were sometimes hard to understand, and I must admit that I was not so interested in the failed car at the time - damn thing looked like a buggy.

Just thought I would share that.

B.

 

I agree with OLDVWS this is an awesome thread. I will need to start checking the HAMB everyday with these type of great threads.

As OLDVWS stated, while not extinct the Standard Eight is certainly rare with only 4 existing models known to exist. All 4 of these existing Standards are powered by Hershcell Spillman based V8 engines.

The 4 surviving examples would be:

1915 Standard Eight Roadster owned by myself



1917 Standard Eight Model E owned by the Frick Arts Museum Pittsburgh PA



1920 Standard Eight Touring owned by Butler Old Stone House Region of AACA



1922 Standard Eight Vestibule Sedan also owned by the Butler Old Stone House Region of AACA



Bob

 

What about the short-lived "Catillac"? I say short-lived, but in truth the Company failed and was restarted NINE TIMES before it was finally laid to rest... LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL..!! Happy April Fool's Day everyone!

 

Any chance you have any more period pictures of the C28 Aerosport? I know pics of the straight 12 prototype are nigh-on impossible to find. I've been trying to draw plan views of both the 12 prototype and the C28 Aerosport as built, but there is a dearth of available pictures of them.

The Horizons picture has some problems, but the straight twelve, according to most knowledgeable sources did have the engine installed and was tested, but it's anyone's guess as to what happened to it. But since it was built on the Aerosport base, it's appearance would have been close to the pic they may have "doctored." They say maybe 7 C28 Aerosports were built but I have only seen pictures of 2. The Menier car, which is extant and the car which was at the 1936 Paris auto show and was licensed as "1936 CV2." It has the same higher-mounted front bumpers as the 12 prototype does and vertical chrome trim in place of the round horn grills mounted beneath the headlights that the Menier car and the 12 prototype had.

 

I'll have to check in the books I have, on the other hand I got pics of a C27 coupe that is presented in most major shows over here and a C25 sedan with the sliding top and round windows I shot in the 80's at the Retromobile show. I also knew of a C23 in my neighborhood but I was about 12 and lost track of that car.
We have a customer at the shop whose neighbor collects Voisins, apparently he's got 6 of them, don't know what kind though, I'm trying to get myself introduced to this person, but it ain't easy...

 

Any period pics you have, or plan drawings would be great. I have a side plan view of the C28 Aerosport from Voisin's original brochure for the C28, but it is pretty grainy. I've got all kinds of pictures of the C27 and the C25. The C28 Aerosport and the 12 Prototype are the ones that really, really interest me. . .

 

Pre-release copper cooled chevys

Chevrolet illustration of cooling air flow over Copper-Cooled engine. Note vertical starter orientation (above flywheel).

http://rad_davis.sent.com/cococo4.html

A total of 759 Copper-Cooled Chevrolets were produced; 239 were scrapped before leaving the factory. Five hundred had been delivered to the sales organization, 150 of those were used by factory representatives. Three hundred had been sold to dealers, and a hundred of these had made it to customers. In June, 1923 the Chevrolet Division recalled all copper-cooled cars from the field.

 

Henry Austin Clark had a Copper Cooled Chevrolet, sold it to Bill Harrah, were is it now? Is it the sole survivor or are there others?

 

I guess I need to start poking around on this thread more often, that #8 is just SO cool. Thanx for the pix and subsequent info. Gary

 

1910 Maxwell Q-2 Surrey, the only complete unrestored original remaining known of. Serial Number 5377 Selden Patent Number 283114

 

1910 Maxwell Q-4

Arguably, the 1910 Q-4 Set the Stage for Chrysler's Racing Efforts.

Would you expect to see a Maxwell at a Chrysler meet? Chances are, your answer was "no," which might be ironic to some, since Walter P. Chrysler owned 55 percent of the nearly forgotten marque in 1924, after his departure from Buick. In fact, the Maxwell evolved into Chrysler by the time the 1925 models were rolling from the assembly line.

Long before Chrysler had control of the company, though, the Maxwell, by 1910, ranked third in volume sales behind Ford and Buick. In years prior, the impressive Maxwell was making quite a name for itself, thanks to slapstick movie shorts, a cross-country trek and several racing accolades. Our feature 1910 edition is actually a Q-4 built for the sole purpose of racing. Perhaps as many as 150 were produced, which in turn would have been used as promotional pieces for Maxwell's dealer network.

It was clear right from the start that the little 93-inch wheelbase machine was designed for the then primitive form of racing, beginning with the suspension. Suspension is more of a figure of speech, when discussing the Maxwell, as the entire assembly rides on nothing more than leaf springs; there are no shocks.

The inline four-cylinder, 176-cubic-inch engine features a 3.75 x 4.00-inch bore and stroke, which is fed via an Ensign updraft one-barrel carburetor. Calculation methods in 1910, used by firms that paid royalties to the Association of Licensed Automobile Manufacturers while observing the Selden patent, claimed the engine would generate 22.5hp; however, the real output is more along the lines of 40 horses. According to the owner, Bobby Warren, "While on a tour in 1962, a cop clocked it at 80 mph."

The transmission is a three-speed manual, with a progressive shifter. The eight-inch clutch, with 15 discs, is disengaged for shifting when the clutch pedal is depressed halfway; the clutch pedal also doubles as the brake when depressed fully. During race conditions, the car was shifted at full throttle.
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The horsepower is then transferred through the open driveshaft, which was a Maxwell innovation. The free-floating rear differential features beveled gears, among them a final-drive ratio of 3.00:1.

The brake system is of the two-wheel mechanical type. External contracting bands are ready to clamp down on the 10-inch drum when activated by the foot pedal, or by the redundant hand brake. (Ironically, a redundant system is in place with the throttle, as well, either by pedal or lever).

The body of the Q-4 "Sportsman" or "Semi-Racer" is sparse, but effective. Aside from the brass radiator and signature curved hood, the detachable rear seats have been replaced by a significant 16-gallon fuel tank made from welded copper with brass caps. The two leather seats sit high--typical of the day--and offer just enough room for the driver and riding mechanic.

The Q-4 weighs in at just 1,300 pounds, which is comparable to today's sprint cars. Many were raced into oblivion long before the scrap drives of World War II. In fact, of the reported number produced, there are only two known to exist, one of which was last known to be in pieces. Warren's Q-4 was purchased in 1955 for $35, after a barn fire. The restoration, including the repair of the bent frame (from a falling barn beam), was completed in 1959.

This article originally appeared in the November, 2007 issue of Hemmings Motor News.

http://www.hemmings.com/hmn/stories/2007/11/01/hmn_feature9.html

 

I would guess this is the one you are wondering about; still in The National Automobile Museum in Reno which is the remains of the Harrah collection.

Chevrolet introduced the Model M Copper Cooled Chevrolet at the 1923 New York Automobile Show. Copper fins were fitted to the engine's iron cylinder head to rapidly disipate the heat. Approximately 759 of the copper-cooled engines were produced. They were a dismal failure and the factory recalled the automobiles and offered to replace them with a normal water-cooled engine. Virtually all were replaced with only this car and one at The Henry Ford Museum known to have escaped the recall.

Notice the copper-colored Chevrolet "bow tie" emblem on the radiator front of the car. The word "Cooper" appears above and the word "Cooled" appears below the word "Chevrolet". This is the only time any words other than Chevrolet have ever appeared within the emblem.

Model: 1923 Chevrolet Model M Copper-Cooled Utility Coupe Manufacturer: Chevrolet Motor Company Division of GM, Detroit, Michigan.

Original Price: $850

Engine: Air-cooled 4-cylinder, 22-hp, 134.7-cid

Bore and Stroke: 3-1/2" x 3-1/2"

http://www.remarkablecars.com/main/chevrolet/1923-chevrolet-copper-cooled.html

 

Was it really patent problems that killed the Copper Cooled engine? I thought the technology just wasn't ready yet.

I need to read Sloan's book.

 

According to the book, Chevrolet Chronicle, A Pictorial History from 1904 by Auto Editors Of Consumer Guide;

Knudsen took a dim view of the so-called "copper-cooled" engine and as it turns out, he was right. The air-cooled car proved a disaster primarily because it overheated. After 500 of them had been built, production was stopped and existing cars were recalled, reportedly to go to a watery grave in Lake Erie! Only two examples survive, both coupes. One of these ended up, perhaps predictibly, in the Henry Ford Museum.

Note the discrepancy in the production fiqures; Some sources say 759 and others say 500.
Rereading the original post by SWI and other sources, I believe 759 copper cooled engines were produced but only 500 cars.

Here's an interesting discussion with more information on the Vintage Chevrolet Club Of America Forum;

http://vcca.org/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/59441/Copper_Cooled

 

1911 ALPENA, the sole survivor, from the AACA Forum. http://www.ru2inc.com/inprogress8.html

 

I was born in Alpena, and still get up there a couple times a year. I'd love to know where in town that car was built.

 

I had an early post of the Standard Eight made in Butler, PA by the Standard Steel Car Company. This car uses the Herschell Spillman V8. While researching the Standard Eight I found that Rowe Motor Mfg of Lancaster, PA put the Herschell Spillman V8 in some of their high speed trucks with pnuematic tires. Here is a listing out of the Automobile Hanbook from 1920 of the Row truck with the V8 specifications of the HS V8.

I couldn't find any pictures that these old trucks exist. Maybe some are still around?

 

In 1917, the Rowe Motor Manufacturing Company opened a truck manufacturing plant in Manheim Township hoping to create the "Detroit of the east", but Rowe had to close its doors in 1925.

From: http://www.lancasterrealestateguide.com/hot_locations/manheim-township.html

 

1938 Chevrolet Cabriolet designed by General Motors of France during an overseas styling exercise. Of the two prototype Chevrolet vehicles designed, this car - featuring unique European influences - is the only survivor, making it a truly unique piece.

​

 

Looks a lot like a Duval design?? Plus as far as I know GM never manufactured anything in France, Belgium yes...

 

The thick cabriolet top with landau irons and the heavy brightwork are more Teutonic than Gallic, I must say.

 

Lot # U033 1938 Chevrolet Master Cabriolet; S/N 88-8; Black/; Visually maintained, largely original, 3- condition; Hammered Sold at $46,000 plus commission of 6.00%; Final Price $48,760 -- Radio, Marchal headlights, trim rings, wide whitewalls on red steel wheels, heater removed, rumble seat, hubcaps, dual vinyl covered sidemounts, trafficators. Weak old repaint over shrinking older paint. Old top. Good older upholstery. Fair old woodgrain paint chipped in places, weak chrome. Orderly but oily and used engine and chassis. No coachbuilder attribution but definitely not Fisher. Described as one of two built. Ex- Bob McDorman. An intriguing car that must have a story worth telling. Reserve off at $45K. In France, where this Chevrolet was delivered with its unusual chassis number, the 85hp overhead valve Chevrolet was equivalent in performance and luxury to some of France's famed marques. The body on this cabriolet is definitely Continental in origin, but carries no easily found identification. Some of the details, like the beltline molding, are very attractive. Its Chevy pushbutton radio is an artful design element in the dashboard. It brought $42,000 at the McDorman auction and sold here for a modest profit.

http://www.sportscardigest.com/mecum-kissimmee-auction-2011-report/

 

Another source that claims it to be French and some more images;

http://mecum.com/auctions/lot_detail.cfm?LOT_ID=OH1110-99470

Of course, both sources being auction companies which are noted for not always being accurate leaves your question unanswered. Anyone have a copy of the book 60 years of Chevrolet (later redone as 90 years of Chevrolet) by George Dammann????

And a third source that claims it as French;

http://www.marque1.com/marque1/2010/09/mecums-bob-mcdorman-auction-a-bonanza-for-chevy-lovers.html

Note that the body plate says France.

 

The semi-separate trunk is French enough:

I've seen similar on Henri Binder coachwork.

 

I think the red car in the second thumbnail (post #5668 on p284) is the one that was restored here in NZ in the early 1990s. As far as I know it was destroyed in the fire which consumed the Von Raffay collection of about 40 (?) irreplaceable cars in Germany in January 2011.

 

I'm not saying the car isn't French, just sayin' GM didn't built cars over here, they were all imported, then like this one coachbuilt.
If you look at post #5419 I posted pictures of a 37 Chevy by Duval, and the trunk and belt moulding are similar to that 38. To me it's a Duval bodied Chevy... Hence the made in France

 

Looking at the '37 Chevy in Chrisp's post #5419, I can definitely understand why the '38 is Duval to him. The '37 is very similar to the '38 and the '37 has a Duval tag;

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=397594&page=271

Chrisp, I wasn't trying to prove whether it was built in France or not. Just wanted to show where the information came from. I guess that's why we have these discussions. To learn from each other. Both the '37 and '38 Chevrolet's we are discussing are very interesting cars. I certainly never knew of their existence before this. I appreciate everyone's input.

 

Sorry, I misunderstood.
So Duval or not??

 

Sure looks like it to me. I was looking to see if I could find any info on Duval Coachwork and came across this '38 Chrysler by Duval.