car has had VIN removed

Im bummed. I have been looking for a nice wagon to build for some time and finally found one but the darn vin has been removed and it's nowhere on the car according to the seller. Found the car on the HAMB classifieds, Its been drilled out where the VIN plate should be.

I absolutely refuse to take the VIN plate on another car and my hunch is that the car was stolen a long time ago and shuttered away (had been in a barn for a number of years). It sucks.

Have any of you guys run into this before and what did you do for a solution? In my state, you can't apply for a title without a VIN on a car that originally came with one. Even if we found one on the chassis, my concern would be that the car would come back hot from days gone by ( after paying for a search) and im out of luck.

I decided not to buy the car cause i dont want the headaches. Every car has a story---though some are not the ones you want to hear.

 

You done right by not buying it. I can't think of any legit reason to remove a VIN under those circumstances.

 

Ask the owner if he would let you take it to the state police to check it out. I'm sure they wouldn't, but that would be the only way I would buy it.

 

If nothing else it could be a great parts car.

 

What is the Vin # on the sellers title/registration? I would beware of the missing plate although there are more Vin #'s on the car if you know where to look. I would bet that the missing plate is running around on another car.

 

Back in the late 60s I built a 68 Z28 Camaro for SCCA Trans-Am and IMSA racing. Since ALL the federally mandated "safety and smog" devices were thrown into the trash bin, the dashboard VIN plate was removed and the title was marked VOID in many places. Doing this eliminated all possibility of some idiots registering the car and driving on public roads. This Camaro can never be used for anything other than racing.
I believe that the penalty for tampering with, swapping, VIN plates is pretty severe.
I wouldn't touch a car without one except under VERY special circumstances.

 

Some brands and years didn't have the vin in many places like the later models did/do. Before WWII one would have to believe that the general thinking of the manufactures and many DMV's was that if the engine went bad the car was a goner.

That wagon might be good for mixing and matching parts on one that has a clear title though. Use the best of both cars and make one.

I guess the next question is what make, model and year is it and someone may know where to look for the hidden Vin number (s) if they do exist. Provided it does have a title with it.

 

I don't think removal of the number plate is the end of the road, after all there are other numbers that can be found and a lot of States are requiring new VINs for custom built cars anyway. If a number can be found and the car is not stolen, I think it can be re-titled.

 

The seller told me he had no title and that he purchased it out of a barn at night. I didn't ask if there was a bill of sale once I found the vin was gone. It was a 56 poncho safari and my concern was even if i did locate a vin on the frame or elsewhere, the fact that the old was one drilled would mean that a)the vin's on someone else's poncho now or b) it's hot or both. I listened to my spidey sense on this one. Damn spidey sense.

 

BTW seller was a very nice guy who was not trying to pull one over on me--i'll give him the benefit of the doubt. It just needs to be advertised as a parts only car or he needs to check the frame, etc. for a vin and if he finds one need to do a state police check on the car to check it's temp.

 

vin tags fall off all the time! My 64' belair wagon is in my name and one day i was poking around and noticed the vin tag was gone, the rivits on these rust and tags fall off. I would do the same thing you did when buying a vehicle by backing away. If the car was sold as "parts" with proper receipt ok. looked at a vehicle and story sure sounded like bullshit so we had the dude pose next to the car and snap a bunch of pictures then we decided a couple weeks later to go back and see if a deal could be made, turns out car had been sold by asshole brother when owner was gone then claimed it had been stolen. we showed the pic's to owner and sent him copy of add off craigslist. turns out the owner had some other parts and made us a really great deal for helping him.

 

My '41 Ford has no Vin # on it at all. The no. should be on top of the frame, drivers side. I've had the entire front off and there were no no's anywhere on the frame or body. I added a Vin tag/ vin no. on the firewall next to the patent plate.

 

vin tags fall off..its possible the car isnt stolen..the vin tag on my falcon only has 1 rivit and is hanging off a bit...not to hijack,but whats the correct way of re attaching my vin tag?

 

New rivits with a sheriff's deputy watching or actually doing the removal and reattachment. I would bet those rivits are being reproduced.

 

There was an auction show one time on TV and some California State inspectors came through and found cars they were selling that had the wrong pop rivets on the vin tags. Evidently, some restorers pull the tags off to do a thorough paint job and then replace them, but if the State boys want to get pissy they can stop the car from being sold and transferred to a new owner.

What I would do it take the numbers off of the other places on the car, and go visit your local DMV and ask them if this car is registered to someone, or reported stolen. If it comes back clear, ask them how to proceed.

Don

 

Be careful. A trophy store VIN plate doesn't mean much. The numbers should be there and can be extremely difficult to read. I forget what the cops use to bring up numbers on guns where the serial numbers have been 'removed', but the numbers can be found. Also, if the numbers are in a 'hidden' area of the car (and the body is off), find this number and photograph it. I might also suggest getting a stamp kit and stamping the SIDE of the frame under the area that the numbers are found. Usually the numbers were on three spots on the left side rail (all under the body), the bellhousing and the engine.

If you put another frame under the car, find those numbers and cut them off from the frame. Then weld them on the new frame. And take pictures!!!

 

I had the serial number plate fall off in my hands. It was spot welded to the left hinge pillar. I have the title, serial number plate, body build plate (screwed on) and a copy of the factory build sheet. I also know where the 'hidden' vin is (just the sequential number from the serial number).

I plan on spot welding the serial number back on when the car has been painted. I had thought of riviting the plate, but as you mentioned, I didn't want any hassel if a show was 'raided' (it does have cut outs for rivits or screws). It doesn't hurt that I have a couple of friends on the local police department and sheriff's department.

 

Swifster, we Florida guys are pretty lucky when it comes to the Government checking our underwear when we try to register or drive an old car, but some States are just NUTS. On that show I was talking about I think the inspectors from the State of California refused to allow those cars to be sold in that State because the vin tags had non factory type pop rivets. The auction guy had to sell the cars to people who signed declarations that they would immediately take the cars out of State and they bought them with the provision that the cars would never come back to California.

The only thing I have ever heard about down here is when the cops go from bike to bike at Bikeweek and grab some that have altered serial numbers or that come up as stolen.

Don

 

According to the NTSB, possession of those rivits is a felony.

 

Correct rivets ???? All of the Willys I have ( VJ, 3 Trucks, 3 Wagons) use flat head screws

 

Dont descriminate on the cars past, its not the cars fault the vin got removed, get her, fix love her and drive her.

 

You might have the seller investigate from your state what can be done. I know of a model A coupe that has a state issued 1965 vin# tag and a title to match it. You may need to see a supervisor to find someone familliar with the process but this is not a new phenomenon. Lost titles and missing VIN numbers have been around for years and years.

Like I said this is the responsibility of the seller. If he is not willing... then walk away.

 

Check with your Indiana DMV and state police, and explain the situation. Find out exactly what is required to title the car in Indiana, and wether it is even legal to possess a car that has had a VIN tag removed. I brought a car to OH last spring that had never been titled in GA. Not quite the same circumstances, but a semi-legible VIN. The OHSP was helpful, and cautioned me as to what could happen to me, the car, and the seller if the OHSP was brought into an investigation of a questionable title or VIN. The OH DMV explained their inspection process (the first step), what documentation I would need from the state of GA, and how their inspection process could involve the OHSP. Scary. I managed to title the car in OH, but it took a lot work, and two trips to GA to get everything in line. Ask lots of questions. It may not be that bad.

 

If it is a pre july '62 chevrolet it may have not had a vin tag ever. My neighbor took over the assembly line at the Fairfax plant in july '62 because of cars getting out without a vin tag.

Just usless information to add to your back log of usless information.

Something to think about is that sometimes vin tags got removed because of restoration and other times they got removed to get a different car registered.

I have two cars here that the vin is laying loose because someone was going to restore them, fortunately they didn't get the vin lost.

 

There are usually two tags on these vintage GM vehicles, one on the driver's A-pillar in the door jamb and the other on the firewall. Here's a link you may find helpful: http://www.pontiacsafari.com/L1EarlyV8Pontiacs/IdentificationTags/index.html
If you can find any number at all, especially a stamping on the frame, you might have a chance of reconstructing the vehicle ID from there. The firewall data plates are being reproduced and I believe that there is a guy in Canada who sells the ID plates for the door jamb as well. Here in Calif the DMV throws out the records of any car over seven years out of registration so if you go in with a new number then they start fresh.

 

to remove / tamper with / affix with the wrong rivets / have the rivets in your possesion are all felonies here in NH. I know as my day job is to deal with the law. Doesn't mean yours is stolen but it does bring up some very interesting questions. I think you did right to walk away.

 

Before you buy check with your local DMV. They may be able to issue you new numbers after they do their search procedure. Most states have a tag they issue for cars that don't have VIN's.

 

Unless you can find a legit vin elsewhere on the vehicle and get a current legit title, the car is a bunch of parts stuck together. No one removes a vin plate for no reason. Either it's hot, or the vin plate and title were sold to someone else long ago to put on a hot car to cover their ass. You now get busted for possession of stolen goods. No paper and vin, no deal. Don't be naive!

 

Have the current "owner" come with the car and you to the DMV and have them check it out. If they find a VIN they can check it out to be sure the car is OK. If they can't find one they may issue one. If there is a problem it is the current owners problem and not yours. Don't under any circumstances buy the car without clean paperwork. If the current owner will not work with you walk (run) away.

Charlie Stephens

 

Shit, looks like I might be doing some time! I have a whole DRAWER full of flathead screws!!