You might recall I'm hunting something of a jalopy for a daily driver, I have built vettes, kit cars, customs all kinds of junk, ground up but not messed with the old stuff, I ran across a 1933 Pontiac 4 door, The price is in my budget as it needs work, The seller says it needs it's wood replaced / worked on, says the doors sag from it, etc, says the wood is not completly shot but needs work, So I need someone to clue me in just what this means, Many thanks! Cheers, P.
GM's of the early 30's had wood support for the doors, trunk lid, roof and most times, the whole body, instead of steel bracing. The sheet metal was somehow stapled to the wooden framework...hence, when the wood dried, or rotted, doors would sag and not fit properly. If you want to see how Ghost28 did his 28 Chevy (famous for lots of wood), find the link that shows how he built the framework our of steel. R-
Early GM cars used wood "frames" to construct their bodies. Body panels were attached to wood frames, assembled with screws and metal brackets. If the wood it "there" the pieces can be used for patterns. If not, sourcing wood components can be frustrating.
At the moment I really dig the car and believe I can get a good deal on it, But from the way you guys describe it that if the wood was really in bad shape these old cars would fall apart???? So is the fix always more wood?
No! If you're good at fab work, you can replace the wood with steel....usually bent or cut/welded square tubing will work. It's been done before, and it can be done again, I'm sure.....Just a ton of work!
No, it won't prolly "fall apart," and the older the wood is, it's not very strong...but would create some problems with fit and finish if you're doing a daily driver. It all depends on how "bad" the owner says it is and actually how bad it is...!!! Here: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=464046&highlight=ghost28+chevy ...about Post # 38 R-
They had a wood frame under the sheetmetal for the body. You can replace it with steel tubing if you are not a purest.
The fix is either to make replacement wood pieces, or to build the supporting structure out of steel to replace the wood. To give you an idea as to how much wood is used, look here: http://www.autowood.net/drawings.htm They are for Chevrolets of the same era, so should give you an idea how much was used in the Pontiac.
and those are two doors, add even more for having 4 doors. Sounds like a lot of work ahead of you if you want the car to be right when you're done.
Yikes!!! I do want a car I can drive daily but I do not need or care if it's perfect, I do need my doors to close, the seller says they sag because they need wood work, while I do not come from a wood car background on a metal car, say a vette I do know and if the seller says the doors sag due to rust I would run away unless the deal was wicked sweet. When people repair this wood do more use wood or metal?
Touche 117Harv...been taking short cuts with my spelling for many years (read my first book for explanation of that...I'm the world's second best speller)...the first is a 6 year old...!!! Thirteen Bats: There are "kits" made for certain GM's...I don't know about Pontiacs... R-
And, even if the wood is saveable, my experience says that an early GM with good wood will self destruct exactly 1 year after you begin to drive it every day. Your experience may vary...
If I were to do a wood car, I'd try to at least get the door jams and door frames metal-solid. That's the stuff that gets the most use.
I'm involved in the restoration of an early 30's Willys Knight sedan at the Gilmore Car Museums "Gilmore Garage Works". The body is, like the Pontiac you're considering, wood framed, and it was intact but needing most of the wood framing replaced. It's a daunting job, even though we have the original prints for the body framing and a shop with more woodworking equipment than most folks, myself included, have access to. I'd think twice about trying to tackle the job. We're tearing our hair trying to get all 4 doors aligned and fitted. It's frustrating, and IMHO, not worth the trouble for a run of the mill 4 door sedan from the early 30's. Brian
The longest part of my Chevy build was replacing the wood with metal... Actually, I'm still working on it and it's only a pickup! I work slow though.
I restored my 1931 Pontiac 5W coupe. Doors needed all new wood. I made patterns and fabricated them from ash....with nothing more than a good table saw, band saw and a table-mounted router (poor man's shaper). It's not hard at all if you know how to work wood and have the patience to fabricate patterns. The key is fabbing the joints with pinned mortise and tenons so they stay tight. The door skins were nailed into the wood with hundreds of cut steel brads. What fun!
The GM early 30-s cars are wood framed coaches. Not only does the wood change shape but it holds moisture to the sheet metal skin. These cars are BIG projects. Get a later GM or a Ford body.
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