Firstly I am familiar withthe search function and use it often.. but there is a lot I don't know and I really would like to learn I have loved cars my whole life, but it seems there are terms tossed around I have NEVER come across untill the last few years.. maybe it's regional. 1) Bellflower. I know this is a town/area where a number of customisers were from.. something like that.. but I hear the term applied to parts.. "that need a bellflower exhaust.. a set of bellflowers etc... What the heck is it????? 2) Seriously.. what's the deal with 1964. I know it gets asked a lot and I have yet to see any real answer, just a lot of smartassed responses. Is it an arbitrary year cut off for Hamb? did something catastrophic besides my birth happen that year? Will the date ever change? will it still be pre '64 in 2025? PLeae just a straight complete answer on this. I have a 49 and a '65 which I love equally... why is the latter suddeny OT by the virtue of it's birthday?
I have never heard bellflower before, must be a regional thing. We have to have a cut off, the begining of muscle cars starts in 64, but that depends on who you ask.
The context that you are refering to for Bellfower is when the exhaust ends, about 24" are on the lower rear quarters outside the body instead of exiting under the car. The 1964 cutoff? Haven't a clue.
Those are cool! I suppose the muscle car thing sort of makes sense.. Seems a shame tough. My fairlane's no muscle car, but I guess if you have to pick a time in history...
I think the year 1964 was chosen due to the 64 1/2 Mustang that started the pony car era. It was a milestone year. Yes we never saw the "Belflower tips" on the east coast. I don't like them since they were not a style of my area.
Both above are correct INCORRECT, Donkey Dicks were Never known as Bellflowers, at least not by anyone that knew what they were talking about. Bellflower is a town on the East side of LA. during the 50's and 60's it was a middle class mostly White area with a great cruising area on Bellflower Blvd. There were a lot of Kustoms that came out of Bellfower and many, especially the 58-60 Chevy's had a bit of the low rider influence. The Exhaust as shown on the Caddy above was very popular and they became known as Bellflower tips or Bellfower Exhaust. It is now over 52% Hispanic and still home to a lot of low rider culture. Bellfowers were a must have for a White Boy Low Rider or Custom guy in So Cal during the late 50's-60's era!
My understanding is that the Bellflower term did originate in Bellflower California, and referred to the exhaust tips shown. Just like "Dago" axles name came about supposedly because they were first seen in San DIEGO, hence the nickname, Dago axles. Even within the State of California there were regional differences in the way cars were built and their style. As for the 1964 cutoff, most hot rodders feel 1965 was the end of regular cars and the beginning of the GTO, Mustang, Chevelle, 442, etc era. For lots of us it was when hot rod building stopped and Muscle car buying began. For $ 99 a month you could buy a car off the showroom floor that was faster and better than what you could build in your own garage, and girls would actually go out with you in them, instead of the rough and dirty ones we were building. I was one of the people who went down and bought a brand new GTO tripower and was out street racing that night, and then taking my GF to a nightclub the next night. The factories did a good job of putting together a bunch of cars that we could afford and that ran like stink. Don
Yeah, there kinda are. The March 64 through July 31,64 cars are definitely different than the "regular" production 65's. Although titled as 65's, those early production cars had generators, (not alternators), large horns on the frame rails (not small on the core support), the brake light switch on the Master (not the pedal), a different heater switch, the front edge of the hood where it scallops back on each side wasn't rolled under, the charge light says "Generator" to name the main differences. So while the DOT wouldn't have them called 64 1/2's and Ford wanted to be the first to market with a 65 model year, the so called 64 1/2's are a different car from a August 1, 1964 and later built Mustang.
1964, the birth of the factory built hot rod aka muscle car. For decades hotroders had been putting the most powerful engine available into the smallest car. 1964 was the year pontiac did that with the GT0. 1964 ISN'T a hard and fast rule around here either. It's pretty fuzzy and sometimes ignored depending on the content. The content is pretty easy to see.
I think they were called 64 1/2 since they came out mid production year, April instead of September where all the new models came out! But you're right that they're all 1965 models. All of the ones made during that 18 month period.
Personally, I would prefer to see the *traditional era* end at 1959......or even 1955.... But that's me.......guess it's an *age thing*......I'm almost 70 and the traditional era in hot rods and customs to me, belongs in the '30's through the '50's...... Just my $0.02 CB
^^ I've wondered about what cuznbrucie said. If you have a customized 1964 car.... people usually didn't customize BRAND NEW cars, right? So the customization usually would have happened in the later 60s, or 70s, so would that mean that appropriately traditional 60s cars would actually be done in a 70s style? Now I'm sure I've stirred the honey pot.
I remember the exhaust pipes here in northeast PA were called scavanger exhaust. Big chrome pipes that hung underneath the trunk from rear axle to maybe 6 inches after the bumper, not on the outside edge of the quarter panel, but under the frame rails.
I will try not to be smart assed with this response. 1964 was about the beginning of the muscle car era. The big 3 flooded the market with "factory hot rods" anyone could buy one no one had to build one. Muscle cars are considered by many if not the majority to be the beginning of the demise of hot rodding. Actually if you ask some traditional neds to be the '40s other think the '50s and so on. '64 was just where after much cussing and discussing we decided to chop it off. Now as for your '65 if it happens to be a body style that wasn't canged from '64 or wasn't greatly changed and you build it along the lines of an early '60s style of build you are probably OK. Chevell malibu comes to mind as well as Chevy C-10. Maybe lincoln continental as well. Someone no doubt knows of some others.
Absolutely correct on 99.5% of the cars on the street. Brand new cars just weren't torn down, cut apart and customized. Maybe .5% were but its probably closer to 0.05%. That's why you see so many mid to late 60s muscle cars as street freaks ala 70s. A guy I used to know had a 31 Ford coupe. He started it as a kid in 1962. Got Busy with school, graduation then Vietnam & finished building it in 1967 - 68 when he got home. It had so many 1966 GTO parts on it, entire drive train, tail lights, dash, steering column & wheel seats. All from a wrecked goat. It was a nice car but definitely a blurry line there. That how the new stuff was used.
To clarify.... Yes, '32 dropped axles were produced down here in the San Diego area starting in the 1940's by a gentleman named Ed "Axle" Stewart. He made them for decades.... They were originally made to help the aerodynamics of hot rods running on the local dry lake beds.
I think the cut-off year will always be a "give or take a couple of years" sort of thing. For instance, there is very little difference between a '64 and a '66 Chevy pickup. It would be absurd to declare the '64 to be HAMB-friendly and say that the '66 is not since they're the same vehicle except for the serial number and some very minor differences in emblems and such.
VINDICATED!!! You could also get a 4 barrel carb with single exhaust and it was rated at 210 hp instead of 225 like the 65's.
INCORRECT, Donkey Dicks were Never known as Bellflowers, at least not by anyone that knew what they were talking about. Dang, I'm 0-2 this week! Gary
1964 is to keep Mustangs away. There were factory "muscle cars" before that. 409 Impalas, Chrysler 300s, & Ford had various big motored cars from the factory. I find it kind of amusing that so many of the hard core anti-Mustang/Muscle car crowd weren't even a gleam in their father's eye in 1964, and would't know what traditional hot rodding is all about without the internet.
My next door neighbor had one of the early (April 1964) Mustangs. In addition to what has been posted on this thread concerning identifying these pre Sept. 64 cars, the passenger side seat was not adjustable. As for the exhaust extensions, we called them "echo cans". Keep in mind I grew up in Ct., not Ca. during the 50's.
I've picked up over the years that Bellflower is more than pipes. It's also that look, which had it's epicentre around the cool stuff coming out of Larry Watson's place way back when.
Wrong : Those aren't muscle cars. The factorys had big cars with big engines & some of those were even higher HP versions. The factory also had smaller cars with smaller engines. The factorys NEVER put the big engines in the smaller cars for sale to the general public prior to the 1964 pontiac GTO. They were first, everybody else said "ME TOO" and tried to catch up or offer their own version. How did pontiac get the drop on everyone else ? Because it was Jim Wagner's idea, pet project, done after hours, in secrecy with his band of like minded recruits, and done without upper management approval until the last seconds. It was to be an extremely limited number production but the public demand outweighed. The famed Horsepower wars always involved the largest car of that particular manufacturer. The factory sponsored race program, as in "win on Sunday, sell on Monday" had a lot of special construction units and in some cases very limited street versions HOWEVER those would all be after 1964. Here's twinkle in your eye ! !
Yeah, cuz lord knows Chrysler didn't do it two years previously with the Max Wedge cars: "Beginning around April of 1962, Dodge and Plymouth offered the first Maximum Performance Wedge (nicknamed Max Wedge) in their new, light, mid-sized cars. The '62 Max Wedge had a 413 cubic inch engine. The engine was enlarged to 426 c.i. for 1963 and 1964. The Max Wedge package, which included many drivetrain and chassis modifications, was available in all 1962, 1963 and 1964 B-body Dodges and Plymouths (330, 440, '62 Dart, Polara, Polara 500, Savoy, Belvedere, Fury, Sport Fury), except 1962 station wagons. Dodge called the package "Ram-Charger 413/426", Plymouth called it "Super Stock 413/426". Mid-year '63 saw the addition of aluminum body panel options including an optional hood scoop, a trunk-mounted battery to add more weight over the rear axle and the "Stage II" Max Wedge engines. The 1964 engines were labeled "Stage III". Contrary to popular belief, neither the early '63 426 nor the '62 413 were ever called "Stage I". © maxwedge.com Horsepower for the Max Wedges are as follows: 1962 413 11.0:1 compression ratio: 410 h.p.© maxwedge.com 1962 413 13.5:1 compression ratio: 420 h.p.© maxwedge.com 1963 426 11.0:1 compression ratio: 415 h.p.© maxwedge.com 1963 426 13.5:1 compression ratio: 425 h.p.© maxwedge.com 1964 426 11.0:1 compression ratio: 415 h.p.© maxwedge.com 1964 426 12.5:1 compression ratio: 425 h.p.© maxwedge.com Max Wedges dominated drag racing during the early to mid 1960s. The fact that they are still competitve in Super Stock classes more than 40 years after their introduction is impressive."
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