Champ quick change axle ideas

Hi gang!

My little long standing '29 roadster P/U project is changing around a bit and threatening to come back to the front burner. A good friend has agreed to sell me a set of 16" no hole Halibrand wheels and new Firestone dirts and ribs for far less than street value, and allow me to pay for them for the rest of my natural days! Never ever thought I could afford something like these, but it is changing the way I'm looking at this project.

Here's the deal. I have a Franklin champ quick change that I bought cheap about twenty years ago with intentions of using it in some sort of drag inspired car. I had always considered it too large for an "A" on "A" rails done as a highboy. With the purchase of what amounts to "champ car" wheels and tires, it makes more sense to consider it under my truck instead of waiting endlessly for a V8 quickchange.
I have the center section, the standard rear cover, (sold the "winged" cover years ago for what I paid for the whole batch) Two 11bolt steel truck type side covers, and a truck type open differential. The differential has 12 spline side gears that accept an axle that is about an 1 3/8" in diameter. The side covers have some outrageously heavy axle tubes set up for a floating axle type deal.

Ideally, I would like to set this up with some standard Ford 9" axle tubes and use possibly two short side P/U 9" axles to get something in the 56" to 58" width area, and 12" rear brakes for my Buick drums to cover. The cut/machine/weld stuff to make this happen between my friends and I can handle. The side gears are my question. What is out there that can be adapted to this differential to accept the 28 or 31 spline rear axles? I kinda know the ins and outs of the V8 style conversion for pull out axles; anything similar here? I did some searching this evening but never found quite what I was looking for.

Thanks, Chip Quinn

 

Living in dirt track central, I have wondered the same thing for years. Seems like there should be an easy fix to convert all these Winters quick changes to 9" axles and brakes.

I have saved a Winters Gold track posi forever in the hopes of using it on the street.

Great question.

 

One of the more expensive hurdles I have found is that most all of the circle track stuff has spools in them. I've been down that road, chirp chirp chirping around every corner get old quick! The wedgelock units I have found are crazy expensive!!! Ideas????

 

I traded the welded locked differential out of this one for an open diff. The guy I traded it to is a much more talented machinest than I am and very carefully cut it all apart and now has a functional Detroit locker. My hat is off to him, but I was a bit concerned that a Detroit locker would be a bit heavy for what I was going to build anyway. Now I have an open differential that is complete and usable, but what side gears to use?
You could always dig up a '37-"52 Ford big truck rear axle where all of this stuff came from in the first place and rob it for it's open diff. Then you'd be in the same shape I am, unless you want to run floating axles and such.

 

Call Winters 1 717 764 9844 there in PA. ALSO SEE IF YOU CAN FIND A PARTS WANTED AT ETHER THOMPSON SPEEDWAY OR STAFFORD SPRINGS SPEEDWAY BOTH IN CONN. THIS STUFF IS ON THE GROUND AT THERE FLEA MARKETS. THEY RUN ON ASPHALT HERE SO THERE ARE LOCKERS AND RATCHET TYPE REARS ALSO THEY US A SLIP IN AXLE WITH EITHER WIDE 5 OR 5 ON 5 BOLT PATERNS. I HAVE ALSO SEEN THEM WITH 9 IN. AXEL STUFF. HOPE THIS HELPS.

 

Years ago I faced the same dilemma. Took inspiration from a pair of Summers Bros axles-where the axle shaft is shrunk and welded into the flange. (I worked in a big tool & die shop at the time). We fit the housing tubes into the side bells after determining what length I wanted. Then we cut the full floater axle shafts off at the outboard end. Cut the flanges off the 9" axles and bored the centers out. Machined the ends of the full floater shafts to achieve the right length AND to create a HEAVY press fit into the flanges. (We put the flanges in an oven for several hours-I don't remember if we froze the shafts). Put the two together then welded in the center. I vaguely remember having to make a shrink fit sleeve to fit just inboard of the flange to provide a proper diameter for the 9" axle bearing. A big lathe, a source of heat, and a good welder is basically what you need.

 

these are designed to be full float
the track guys around here run them with wide 5's

your going to have to get custom tubes & axels made

Benson speed in grand rapids mi is who you want to talk to
benson speed equipment
3128 Bird Avenue N.E.
Grand Rapids, MI 49525
<DD cl***=tel itemprop="telephone">(616) 361-7939 </DD>


or
drive train spe******ts
http://www.drivetrainspe******ts.com/categories/quick-change/

it aint gonna be cheap but its gonna look cool

 

the quick change 31 pline is the same as a 31 spline 9" ford. non spool detroit type lockers are for sale for a few hunderd bucks here in the northeast used in black top modifieds. use weld on 9in axle ends and your good to go.This was done often in our lesser divisions to retain a stock lug pattern and not go wide five. Ebay has used locker and slipper differentials.

 

Also for sale 3" tubes with the ford ends already installed ,you cut to desired length.

 

Also make sure you have the bearing spacer that goes in one of the side bells if using the truck ones.

 

Ya, I didn't know abou that until a thread just recently. I do have it though.

I know I can get a whole differential, but I would be very happy with the open unit I have. Still looking for sugestions as far as side gears to make this work...

 

You have a problem that has been faced by hot rodeos for years. I have built many using the Ford 28 and 31 spline side gears and the open 3/4 ton truck differential. (cheap way) I have also posted a thread on using the DPI unit and cutting it down to fit. If you want to keep it simple I would recommend you call Ron's Rear Ends in LA and talk to Ron, or Speedway Engineering in Slymar. They can fix you up with the side gears you need for the conversion. I used axles from a pre 72 1/2 ton Ford truck and had them re-splined. Dutchman also does a nice job but the conversion will set you back about $3K. Hope this helps.
Lynn

 

Cool! That's what I was looking for! I knew that someone had figured this out at some time! What is the name of the thread you posted? I dug for a good hour last night before I started this one.

 

Chip. this is scary. I just found out my spool for the Bonneville car has the 12 spline internals and none of my axles will work. I just started asking around about these this week!

 

Chip, is the 'short side pickup' axle out of a 9 inch with large bearings? (or is it out of a Bronco?)
Some research I've done yielded axles out of truck 9-inch rears to be the same length.
If you know of one with a short axle one side, I'd like to know. (need it for my '55 F100)

Most Bronco 9-inch rears (early) are small bearing, but there were some 58"-60" with large bearings. (28 spline) Hard to find.

 

I'm thinking Pickup big bearing stuff. I have a Van 9" housing to harvest for axle ends and maybe tubes, (though I'll probably just do D.O.M.) But if memory serves correct, the short side axle from a 70s truck is right on about 28" or so and should work out correctly. I'd ideally like to end up with 12" rear brakes out of this deal too so I can do something with my excess Buick brake drum collection.

 

****! I reacently gave the floating axles from this deal away 'cause I knew they wouldn't be anything I needed. Now that I think about it, not sure they were 12 spline though cause they came with the Detroit locker that was in it when it came my way.

 

when i owned summers , we made a few conversions for the v 8 q c , using the bells from 36/47 banjo rears , we made our own bearing conversion kits and it worked fine , but i made mine a 31 spline axle shafts and had no problems , now im working on a c a e champ and converting it to flange axles , and also , these axle shafts are from one piece closed forgings out of 4340 material ! those two piece jobs were long gone from the early days !

 

I just read several threads where guys mention having 31spline axles re-splined to 12 spline. The search function rocks!

 

I would change the spool for 31 spline many spools in great shape on ebay steel spool are 60 bucks in good shape. just used one on my vintage dragster.

 

Thanks, but this is for my street car, and I already have an open differential . Spools on the street **** rocks.

 

I swear I looked until a damn near went blind before I posted last night. any specific axles being used or specific threads you found that you can share? I just searched Champ Quick change axles.

 

Here is a pic of mine ready to put together.



The easiest way to do it is to spend a bit of money (yea, I know..that ****s) Call Winters and order new axle tubes with 9in bearing flanges already installed. (250 bucks for teh pair, I think.)

Score a set of aluminum or mag side bells which are cheap on ebay and way easier to use than the big ugly iron truck ones. Install the tubes in the beells, set up your r9ing gear/pinion/differential, then measure for axles.

When the rear end is fully ***embled, you can stick a tape measure down the axle tube and find the new axle length, which is usually the same on both sides. Then, wright another check for about 300 bucks for Mosher or Currie or someone to build you a new set of axles.

Make SURE you know what brakes you are going to run before you order axles. You need to know this so they can maching the bearing flanges and stuff in teh right spot.

That is the easiest, but not the cheapest...

Good luck, -Abone.

 

Here is a shot of teh 9in stule axle tubes from Winters. Install them on the bells BEFORE you ***emble the rear end.



-Abone.

 

Wish I was just flat smart enough to write a check or two! In the long run that is what I will probably end up doing. Your stuff sure looks pretty though!

Are those aluminum or mag bells? They look like my steel truck units. I have never seen aftermarket stuff that didn't have reinforcement webs

 

I typed "12 spline" , use the quotes, in the search. had 40 some hits, pretty easy search

Also waiting for a call back from Frankland on a couple questions.

 

My bells are mag on the '34 and aluminum on the Model A. There are a few diffrent styles of ribs, but the regular old alumunum 8 rib ones are the most common.

If you like the looks of the truck style, you can use them too, but "some people" think they are ugly......

 

Here are some more random thoughts....

There are some readily available axle tubes that have a flange for some sort of brake backing pad that uses big *** buick drumb parts. They pop up every once in a while on ebay and aren't terribly expensive. For some reason, I think they are big wide five pattern though, which would mess up your Halibrand solids deal...

Or...you can run a Grand National style axle tube and axles which are cheap and easy to find and you can redrill the 5on 5 GN hubs to your 4.5on5 Halibrands. BUT, you would most likely have to run the disk style brakes for teh GN hubs. They actually look kinda cool on a racy lookin car...

Or, you can weld on a pair of junk yard truck 9in axle tube ends (grab the brakes also) to your existing axle tubes. (requires a small amount of machine work to get the ends located properly before welding) Then, you could cut down a long set of 9in 31 spline truck axles to your proper length and spline them for 12 spline. (not 100 % sure you can respline to 12 spline, they are pretty big...)

I did this on my Model A. I scored the axle ends, (cut them off with a sawsall and looooong extension cord right in the junk yard) brakes and 31 spline axles from a '78 Ford extended cab truck (ex cabs are all 31 spline.) But, it turned out one of the axles was too small to respline, so I had to pop the 300 for a new set of axles, but the rest worked out great.


The first thing I would do is score a catalog from Winters (also includes a kick *** QnA section, tech stuff and full ***embly procedures.) for 5 bucks. Then, watch ebay for cheap used stuff and call Winters or Speedway for all the rest.

Good luck, -Abone.

 

That's exactly the info I was looking for. Thanks alot.

 

Chip,

I put this together on paper for a customer several years ago. He decided to spend more money and buy a 31 spline differential.

Here is what you need. After market axles, 12 spline with the oversize bearing O.D. on the flanged end. (Moser). This allows the larger 12 spline end to fit through the bearing. The O.D. of the bearing is the same as a big Ford 9" housing. The ends and bearings are available from Moser, too. Cutting the ends off a 9" and fitting them to a real tube is a real P.I.T.A.

I have never seen a 9" Ford axle that is large enough to make the 12 spline diameter.

Have the overall axle lengths made 1/2" shorter than half your flange to flange width. Eample: for a 56" rear end, have the axles made to 27 1/2".

If you do come across the interchange for a 31 spline side gear that fits the early Ford 12 spline differential, please post. That would make this swap very easy and a lot less expensive.

Then we'll just have to find a source for differentials that haven't been welded up. I have several that have had the side gears welded into the case.

Bruce Schneider
Gearhead's Quickchange Exchange