You're doing ok orlando. Asking, looking and figuring things out is what folks call 'experience' as opposed to 'booklearnin' and experience always gives better results. In case you are wondering about the 'crossover' that they keep bringing up, when the engine has fired and the exhaust valve is closing there is a referance point in there when the intake valve begins to open (the exhaust vacuum/velocity helps to bring the intake air into the cylinder) so there is a point where the intake and exhaust valves are both equalilly open and this is called 'zero-crossover' or just 'crossover'. But, since you have a flattie and if you can see the valves for 'crossover' then you could also see the piston and could easily figure out when it reached tdc.
It is Marked at #1 on the cap and I've got it set to #1 on the distributor. I don't know if there are any markings as the 'Deg Wheel' as you called it is pretty well corroded. Well I feel like I might actually be learning something here.
Line in middle and see how its starts.I wanted to see if the vac advac was working on mine.Stock dist vac line on.I marked 1-1/2" past the mark thats about 28 degs.If you take it up to 2000 2500 RPMs line it up there.At idle should come back to middle mark.I marked both sides didn,t know witch side to mark.Mine runs the best now, no more pinging.Stay away from fan. Good luck
Ya thanks. As I said this is my first project car and I'm basically just jumping in and figuring it out as I go along, building the car out of whatever parts I can find, steal or otherwise acquire. I don't even have a garage it's all being done under a big shade tree. Thanks again! I'm sure I'll be back with more questions.
Easy way to know is number one cyl. would be at top of compression stroke (meaning both valves closed) and number 8 cyl. would be at the bottom of the intake stroke(meaning intake valve opened). Looking at valves in this way will put the mark where you should be able to line up the marks on the pulley with the timing bracket and the rotor should point to number one on the distributor. This is to get you in the ball park degree wheel and piston stop is the accurate way if you have those available.
There must be someone form Orlando who can help a guy out. Sometimes, a hour with someone who knows what they're doing is worth a month of figuring it out on the internet. It's a simple task if, and only if, you've done it before and understand the theory. If you're new to it, it can become overwhelming. Orlando Brothers need to step up.
I know that its not nice but this is one of the best statements i have read period! In all seriousness though, clean the pointer, ingore the notch cause it could be from anything, feel out TDC and make on new mark going across each other. Not to confuse you but one reason for not putting all faith in the pointer is in all the years that motors seen its possible someone could have bent the pointer working on it and then who knows what its indicating.
Yeah not good on 6 cyl. but works on 8 cyl. Change it to number 1 at tdc (compression) and number 5 (on intake) for 6 cyl.
Another method is to cut a piece of clear plastic tubing (about 8 to 10 " is good), that will fit tightly in the spark plug hole. "Rough it" to as close to tdc as you can,...then pour in some ATF, to the middle of that tube. Very slowly, bar the engine, while observing the liquid level in the tube. When it stops rising, you will have TDC. That works perfect, in the absense of a degree wheel. Be sure to mark TDC to align withthe pointer........ 4TTRUK
Do you guys have any idea what piston dwell is, how rod length affects it or how many degrees of crank shaft rotation can be involved ? TDC or Top DEAD Center is not a reference to piston location. It is a reference to crank shaft position.
The guy is a novice, and he isn't trying to set up a cam....any of the methods you don't like will get him close enough to stab a distributor, which I believe is what he is trying to do.
Yes I know and understand his novice status. Why confuse with nincompoopery ? Finding and understanding TDC, marking TDC when you don't have a mark, checking your balancer for accuracy are all very different than getting close enough. Any balancer over 10 yrs old is likely to be slipped on the ring. The op stated here and other threads that he did not have a mark or tab on his 81 6 cyl fairmont engine. The title of this thread is "FINDING TOP DEAD CENTER " and starts with comments of not having any marks. Installing a distributor and setting the timing are related but veryvery very different.
I recently had to confirm TDC and recalled the method I saw in this thread. I just went a step farther and used a cc vial with ATF for my fluid. Rocking the crank back and forth until you see the highest mark in the vial and you will be on TDC. This matched the pointer I had set up when building the engine ( dial indicator with head off). I was just confirming the mark after 3 years of running. It works!!! Dick in Havasu
This thread has got to be one of the most entertaining here at the H.A.M.B. The answer to the question is so simple and yet there are so many replies that would completely confuse the original poster. All four cycle engines have two TDC (Top Dead Center) events during a complete cycle...two revolutions of the crankshaft. One is TDC compression and the other is TDC overlap. Initial ignition timing is set at TDC compression.....both valves closed. The factory timing marks are, for the most part ball park as far as TDC and degree marks. Close enough for the average street use. But, to be totally accurate the degree wheel and piston stop is 100% accurate. Some of the replies are right on the money, others seem totally off.
Yeah, actually I do. The op here is trying to see if he has any timing marks when the engine is at TDC. It is trying to get the engine to TDC which he can do at his skill level not yours. The suggestions are ball park only and what you said before is really what needs to be done and then timing tape can be added to have an accurate timing marks. He at this point can't do this. His picture does show a mark as well as a pointer and getting the piston to the top of it's travel on compression will allow him to see how they line up currently. I hope he hangs in there and gets it done.
ive built alot of engines over the yrs from stocker to high dollar drag engines, and now with all this tdc talk im almost confused, almost! lol
I've seen this done before where they hallow out a spark plug and run the tube, it's something I'll add to my tool set eventually but right now I'm working with a basic set of hand tools. Hopefully I should be ready to fire it up soon, I've now replaced 100% of the ignition system, the starter, thermostat and battery. I'd like to get it fired up next weekend. So I'm thinking if I did this right it should look like this... Now here's the thing working with a socket on the crank pulley this was about as close to zero as I could get it after 30 min of trying to get it dead on. Is this a case of 'close enough' or do I need to just keep at it until I get it exactly on zero?
Do you have to put the dist in,thats about all you need TDC for, the timing light will get you close enought.That oil kept the degs wheel good.
piston stops work great. problem is the spark plug is not above the piston. Just how are you stopping the piston/??????? Again, this info is for a flathead. I thought the picture would explain that. The head is still on the engine. The question of two TDC's, you will not push any air with the valves open. I just rock it on the compression stroke. I needed to confirm my pointer on the degree wheel. I found it to repeat exactly to the same mark, believe it or not. I have an ECU controlling my spark. This was simple too me. Just trying to pass along some info that might be helpful. Of course taking the head off would be the most accurate way to confirm your location. It must be pretty close though, the 304 mtr pulls 305 ft. lbs. at 2750.
Ya that's all that's left at this point is to drop the distributor in. I've never attempted something like that on my own before, I'm doing all this on my own and this is my first project car. Didn't want to be just another college grad who is helpless when it comes to doing anything with his hands.
Hang in there....anything learned,...is a good thing, no matter how trivial it may seem. The ONLY stupid question....is the one not asked ! 4TTRUK
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