Projects What!!? another 27 on 32 chassis!??. Scratch build body.

Great project Zach, looking forward to seeing more

 

I'm unsure about the door bead... I made some dies to do it... but... can't make up my mind...
I may do a thread eventually... haven't been doing a good job of taking photos so far and mostly working on the frame right now...
Don;t want to hijack your post with any more photos... just posting to let you know I'm following along and your work is inspiring me to keep going on mine
Zach

 

Zach I took a look at your website, you are a talented guy, I can't do paint or any of that stuff. I just bash metal. I studied vehicle restoration and have a City and Guilds diploma, I can paint a car but I can't do the lettering and striping you can do. The drawings are really good too.

David

 

Thank you, David!

 

Happy customer in Australia today when I sent him photos of this...



...radiator shell I made him.

David

 

Going home quite happy myself because I managed to get the front swage (bead) done on my cowl...



David

 

The rad shell looks like art.

Will you be posting pictures of how you did the front swage? I'm curious.
I have no fancy tools or the talent you have so I welded an L-shaped lip around mine and called it done.

As usual.. you do nice work.

 

David, that cowl is beautiful. Your metalworking skills are inspiring.

 

Thanks for looking in Joe and Tom. The radshell is all hand beaten I have made more than 200 of that type of radiator shell. The swage (bead) at the front of my cowl is done in the same way as the swage at the back of the radiator shell- On a hand cranked swager (bead roller) It takes several passes and in the case of the cowl two people to do it.


Joe you don't have to own fancy tools, just about anything can be made completely by hand with hand tools. I could make the cowl panel without any machines. Machines just speed things up. The radiator shells are made with hand tools- I wheel the sides and put the swage in with a swager the rest is hand beaten and hand finished. I have a thread on here showing how I make them. Most parts need hand finishing anyway.

David

 

Here is another shot of the cowl, not finished yet but getting close. I am pleased I managed to make it in one piece.



I have yet to finalise the A post line and form the flange along the bottom. It needs a little more dressing to get the last imperfections out. I will have to get the door hinges soon so that I can finish the inner frame before fitting the skin. I have a big order of stuff toget from the USA along with the hinges (screen posts, boot (trunk) hinges, door catches and quite a few other things so I have to get some money together for that.

I have other body parts to make so it won't hold me up. I think I will make the doors next so I can get the door I borrowed back to its owner.

David

 

David - I have a steel 27 on 21 TT rails. You are welcome to PM for measurements anytime. I'm in Chester - so a bit far away to drop in with a tape measure ;-)

 

David... maybe YOU could make the panel in one piece without machines....
Many of us? Probably not.

I did mine without machines but I did the front by welding on the "L" as I mentioned and since mine isn't to be that original looking I never added the double reverse curves at the back so it's a lot more simple.
But I'm happy with it.

Some of us are watching and don't comment much because just how many times can you post "Wow" and "Looks great!"?
Don't stop posting your work!

Joe

 

Hi Jack, Thanks for the offer. I may make more of these bodies at some point, the cowl is the hardest part to date. I have made most of the rest of the parts before like the doors and the bun panels so it should be straightforward from here. I would like to get hold of a roadster body to copy for the future. I have not forgotten that you asked me about a cowl panel. As you can see I have one now so pm me if you are still interested....

David

 

Joe, you asked a question in you're previous post rather than just posting 'wow' so that's great. What I can do you can do if you know how. Welding the front flange on is OK I did similar things years ago when I first tried making panels and the information wasn't out there like it is now. The only down side to doing it that way is the distortion you get from the welding. Its actually not that hard to throw a flange with just a hammer and a dolly- the simplest way to make the swage in the cowl above would be to throw a three-quarter inch flange then throw a half inch return which would give you the swage, then add extra metal to give you what you need in front of the swage- this moves the welding away from the surface of your panel and the extra metal could even be spot welded on. You would work with less metal to begin with which makes it easier to do. Its easier to show than explain but its not hard to do. I show throwing flanges on my you tube footage.
The cowl is a big panel and because ot this in some ways it is easier to do by hand than in a machine its just more work. Of course for someone starting out a little practice would be needed.


David

 

Thanks for the explanation. I understood what you meant. Putting that knowledge into practice is just that: practice.
I was very careful/lucky and managed to get no visible distortion when I welded the front.
If I was doing this for a living or for a very nice project I would certainly practice your method. But a one-off for fun was the deal with this one.
You are correct about the information being out there now. When I worked on cars for a living in the 70s and 80s we had never heard of E-wheels and bead rollers... just beat the metal into submission as good as you could and make it smooth after. And of course there was no internet.
Now, with videos like yours available there are many more opportunities for folks to learn.
Thanks for sharing.

 

Coachbuilding or metalshaping as you guys call it is something of a tradition here in England, it never really died out. Aston Martin, AC, Morgan and several other companies continued to build hand built bodies along with lots of independent companies that did high end restoration or prototype work. The skill have always been passed down. We call the "English wheel" a wheeling machine or simply a wheel. It has always been used here. Most of the machines I own are turn of the last century. I did my two year City & Guilds diploma course in '86 having done a year part time before that but the skills I was taught are age old. I decided to do the DVD because there is a lot of misinformation out there and also most information given (on DVDs and in magazines) shows how to make things with large machines. From teaching evening classes for twenty years on and off I know that most people just want simple solutions to make patch panels and such using hand tools.

Here is a photo of my wheeling machines...







This is the sort of stuff I build on a day to day basis...



the car on the left below is the car above when it came in...



Here is another little job...



In the photo above the grey wheeling machine is an Edwards machine which I sold to buy the Kendrick in the other photos.

David

 

Would you mind explaining a bit about the two different designs of the wheels you showed?
Does the shaft on the Kendrick add more rigidity or does it have another purpose?
The wheel I made out of scrap has the adjuster on the bottom, like the Kendrick but I think I'd prefer it on the top for easier access. Well.. that and so I don't beat my shins to death. What are your thoughts on that?

 

Nice work on the cowl Dave, good to see that you're progressing

 

Cheers Bob, took a couple of goes to work out the best way but as you know that is often the case. Doors next when I get time.

David

 

the shop I did my time in had an Edwards wheel, the Rolls-Royce of wheeling machines IMO. It had the shaft running through to the back like your Kendrick,and also the tiltable bottom wheel...which is real cool for making nice tight reverse curves. Awesome shop you have there Dave.
Paul

 

Joe, the shaft does make the wheeling machine stiffer, the Frost machine is quite stiff without it but the Frost, while being cast iron like the others is hollow box section. Frost also made a version with the shaft. You can see the hole in the frame where it could be fitted on the other version. This version allows the top and bottom wheel to be rotated 90 degrees so the work can be fed in the other way on awkward parts. The Frost is still made but the design isover a hundred years old.

The handle on the Kendrick can be used to feed metal backwards and forwards which helps on some small parts when using high pressure. Some machines had a handle which could also be fitted to the shaft on the outside of the frame, presumably so that a second person could turn it while beads were being formed in panels.

Having the adjuster on the top or bottom makes no difference to the machine, it is a matter of personal preference.


Fabricated machines can work just as well as these old cast machines. I was loaned a Harbour Freight type machine (which are very cheap) to test, while it was not a great machine and the wheels were not true, I found that It worked very well for small parts, Longer parts would end up with ripples due to the wheels not being true. I used it to make the turtle deck panel I showed earlier in the thread because the wheels were small it was great for that.

David

 

Paul (fleet-master )Of all the machines I have used the Edwards is my least favorite but I know people who prefer them. I use the Frost most but love my old Kendrick. All these machines have some form of adjustment for the bottom anvil.

My workshop is far too small, it looks bigger in the photo than it is - I have less the 1000 square feet.

David

 

i've only used a few (3 or 4) different wheeling machines and of those the Edwards was by far the best. My current one is fabricated from heavy plate and works ok but its not real nice.
The Kendrick and Frost both look awesome too.
I'd quite like a Trumpf power hammer I must admit. I saw one used a few years back and it was almost silent compared to the ones we used at our Polytech courses.
1000sqft...whats that in metres?

 

Mr. David, I've just spent several hours enjoying this tread and have subscribed to your others identified here. I'd like to reiterate all the praise and appreciation sprinkled throughout. Ceratinly one measure of a man's wealth and success is his ability to survive and prosper while in pursuit of mastering something he is obvoiusly passonate about, and to be willing to share his mastery with others. By that measure I must say you are one of the wealthiest, most successful among us! Thank you for the inspiration!

 

Paul, at a guess the workshop is less than 10m X 10m.

By Trumph power hammer I guess you mean the pullmax type machine made by Trumph? This is more a reciprocating machine than a power hammer but you can do a lot with them that is similar to the work you can do on a power hammer if you have the right tooling. I have two Pullmax machines. I only got the first one a few years ago and got another one because it came up at the right price with lots of tooling. I have one set up for cutting and the other I use for everything else.

I have never used a Power hammer ( a pettingell or that type of hammer) but would like to try one out. I have an open invitation to go to the states and try one but can't do it yet.


David

 

Blimey! Cheers Fan Attic I'm please you like the thread! I guess I am passionate about this stuff because I spend my spare time thinking about it or on sites like this!. Well I haven't got thirty cars though- are they all Chevys? I had a cat called Chevy years ago so I guess that says something about me.

Thanks for looking in and commenting!

David

 

Certainly my pleasure Sir. And no, I'm afriad I'm not even a perfect addict. Mostly Bowties but a a few stray GMC, Cadillac, Ford and Ferguson distractions just because I couldn't say no. Please keep up the fine documentation of your '27. And I certainly hope your Mates showed up in style to fill in for your Daughter's prom ride! Seems nothing is ever as easy as we hope.

 

I wish I could of had had all these teachers,schools and shops to learn from..I picked up most of my skills on my own.I get by with what I have learned and been using simple tools to do it.How I learn is by buying books and in the last 10 or so years searching the net. but still I have to teach myself.Im a hands on type of person.not much for the book learning! lol. Nobody around here does this type of work and 95% of the guys working on cars are just bodyman.I did that trade and worked in it for 25 years and picked up a bit here and there. built my own tools like a metal brake and a wheel and use simple tools to do all my work.If I havent got the tool I make it. I love reading post like yours and seeing how it is done and picking up ideas. I would love to take a month and just head across the pond and learn a thing or too.

 

fitzee Its possible to make very complex repair sections with only a few hand tools. The parts in the photo below were made using no machines only hand tools. I showed this in a magazine article...



This model A wing was repaired using simple techniques and hand tools.



I started out by getting my first City and Guilds when I was sixteen when I learned how to weld. I then taught myself how to shape metal while working full time doing wrought iron work/duct work/window cleaning and driving for a living along with a few other jobs. I just wanted to do this but did not know how to get started.

I built lots of cars around that time long before I went to college to learn vehicle restoration. In the photo below I am building a coupe from a Ford popular (Anglia in the US) I was about 24 then. (about 1984)



Here it is in bare metal when I had finished the body. Its sitting next to a standard pop (Anglia) body. So a sort of before and after shot.



I was completely self taught at the time I built this car. It was not done the way I would do it now of course. I can shape metal where I fabricated shapes when I built the little coupe.

David

 

I guess what I was trying to say is I learned a lot before I ever went to college and I worked full time while spending most evenings and weekends learning by doing and reading. (American hot rod magazines mostly) In a way it is easier now because the information is out there. I was lucky to go to college later and learn more but it was a two year full time course with all the sacrifices that entails.

The little coupe above still exists and is now in Australia having been shipped there by my good friend Bob (bobbedt on here) he has a thread on its rebuild on the site.

David