Paintjob went wrong - Need advice - Pic Heavy

For 4 grand the guy could have at least set the gaps, used sealer on the window and painted underneath the hood. Hell he had 6 months to do it.

 

eat the 4 grand.

there is a good chance that even with a victory in small claims court, you will never see a dime of the judgement. whats more, you have even less of a chance of the guy redoing the car, for free, in a timely manner.

in order for the car to be done to your level of expectation, its gonna hafta be stripped to make repairs, and color matched or completely repainted. but you already knew that.

it sucks that you got burned. consider it a $4000 lesson.

 

He treated you pretty poorly for $4000.00 IMHO.
Tom

 

Why is it that this type of thread will always reappears every other week or so ? Everyone and their brother will condemn the shop owner , the car owner , the painter, the car . They will state they had an ironclad contract , ect . Yet things still went downhill and a bad experience was had by all involved .

What were the warning signs ? The missed information ? The gathering clouds of the impending storm ? If you cant recognize them you will experience the same result again.


It boils down to properly interviewing the contractor and asking the correct interview questions, listening for the right or incorrect response , interviewing past customers to see what they liked or did not like about their experience with the shop. Looking at the work in progress at the shop. Evaluating all the information then making a educated decision to determine if this contractor is the right one for you. Just because a friend had a good experience with them , doesn't mean you will have a great experience.

In this case the OP appears to have done some of his homework after a bad first experience yet he has had a similar result. He missed something. There was a warning sign out somewhere out there that was overlooked. It could be as simple as the cost being too cheap. A shop full of cars and no employees. There were signs.

Many post their difficulties with the hope that others will not have to go through the pain they are feeling as a result of an experience like this. If the answers cannot be found or shared someone else will relive the horror.

 

Go see Judge Marilyn Millian on Peoples Court. Might not win but you get on TV and better yet so would he for everyone to see.

Seriously, if he really has a good reputation and is capable of good work based on the other cars you saw I would think he would be concerned about maintaining it.

Problem is I think it's probably close to a complete redo to fix things correctly and he is not likely to be willing to go that route.

 

I ran a shop for 28 years and had the price discussion many times. An owner at another shop explained it to me best. Regardless of how much I priced a job, I owed the customer the job. If I priced it too low it was not the customers fault. It was still my job to provide a decent paint job. I don't think anybody could possibly ever state that this is what was paid for. Nobody would ever ask a shop owner how much would you charge for a really shitty paint job that will last less than a month? As for how much he paid, I think we already know the answer, TOO MUCH!!!! It doesn't matter what he paid, he didn't get a usable product. Also, whatever you do, do not, I repeat, do not take that car back to that shop. As sick as you are now, I guarantee you will be sicker if you take it back to him again!!!!!!!!! My advice would be to eat the job, try to find a normal body shop to take care of a few of the biggest issues. First thing I would fix would be anything that will prevent you from assembling your car. After that, have issues fixed as you can afford them. I'm sorry for the problems you've had and I would definitely out the guy and the location of his business.
Just saw the price. I think I can honestly say he didn't get $4000 worth. For that amount you can't get a show car, but you can get a decent paint job. He's not in California, he's in an area somewhat like where I live and I can see a decent paint job being done for $4000, note that i said decent, not show quality

 

This is really the bottom line. Yes it was too cheap a price for what you were asking to have done but in the end if he was a upstanding guy he would have eaten HIS mistake and given you what he promised.

 

i wont say 'it' because i've turned out a hell of a lot better job than this for the same or less money. this job plain and simple sucks, i would not let anything leave my shop lookin like that or even close to it. when i was 17 i might have had some missed things but after all these years painting and for what it costs now i dont miss stuff like this, sorry for your bad luck hope it works out.

 

to fix the pops correct it need to be sanded down until they are gone and re cleared. but you'll probably bust into the base since that is where the pops originated from(9 times out of 10). so you'd have to re base and clear. Basically start again.


to fix this car I'd have to strip it and bring it back up. We aren't cheap either, usual paint is ~10K plus body work. But what we do is show winning in all venues.

For 4K you got the shaft. but i mean no disrespect when I say for 4K you cant expect perfection either.

To put seam sealer in the gutter and slick it out is a less than 10 minute job. It should have been done.

Painting over rust is never ok, and show hints of the guy just not giving a fuck.

In all a good paint job is all in the prep, hours and hours of prep. A monkey can spray the shit, just keep a wet edge.

I feel for you man. Good luck.

 

Quick question-what was he supposed to do differently?

Honestly, it sounds like he did a lot of things right and got burned. Pull the car out after paying them becuaes the guy is complaining he's underbid?

I've witnessed business transactions where folks pay less than the contract specifies if they're unsatisfied and say 'f you, sue me for the rest'.

Should he have held the last payment? Won't they just keep the car until paid or lien it? Should he have thrown the guy more money, hoping he'd do the job to spec?

I've been in similar situations, the guy seemed fair and reasonable, I paid payments for work done, and partway through it just went to hell.

 

I agree, that is about what a back door 4k job looks like to many "painters". Drive it, let it wear, learn some bodywork and attack it again in a couple seasons when YOU can finish it to your level.

 

For me the biggest red flag is a guy who is "alwaysbusy"saying hecan do a complete in 6 weeks. Regardlessof price this screams I am going to have to cut corners to even meet my deadline or I am so desperate for business I will say anything to get it.

It's not the work he wants if he has a shop full of cars, he desperately needs the next deposit money. The guy could care less about getting them done.

The last 5% takes 95% right

 

Bingo! The painter/owner of the shop I work at has a STELLAR reputation for turning out amazing paint jobs... we currently have a 2 year + waiting list.

 

I am glad many (not all) agree with the way I feel here. The price paid is irrelevant, which is why I left it out to start with. He bid the job and work to be done, period. His fault, sure. mine, how?

Like I told Johnny1290 earlier, anyone here that would say "well, shit for $4k, what did you expect"? I would ask this, if you hired a guy to build a shed for $4000, laid it all out, agreed on it, wrote a contract stating it all, and then got home and some bricks and vinyl were falling off and it was a tad crooked because it turned into more of a job than the contractor thought, I doubt they would enjoy hearing, "well, what did you expect for that price. That was a $6k job". You expect what they agreed to do, in anything you hire out.

A friend of mine is a great carpenter and owns his own business. he has lost his ass on several large jobs. He never once did it less than perfect as if he were making good money off of it, and never once stated it was anyone elses fault but his. My parents $30k pavilion in their backyard was one of them, he lost money, but my parents couldn't be happier with the finished product either way. He learned the lesson their, not the homeowner.

The above is not AT anyone, just venting more than anything here.

 

There's two kinds of craftsmen - there's the crappy kind that no matter how much you pay them they still do a shitty job. In other words there isn't enough money in the world to get them to do it right.

Then there's the good kind who know what the job takes, refuse to do inferior work and will charge what its worth. They will not do a quicky job to suit your budget," Find somebody else" is what they say often. Once in a rare occasion they will do a quality job for way less than its worth if the planets are aligned.

That's craftsmen ^

Now there's businessmen - Different breed all together. Some are honest as the day is long - the rest aren't

 

It seems maybe he is better at spraying than doing bodywork. Perhaps those other cars he sprayed were much better bodies to start with and needed very minimal work to respray or get down to nice clean metal and epoxy/paint.

It does seem to make sense to at least give him a shot at making it right, but on the other hand, the car might end up worse. What a bummer situation...

 

Geez man that sucks. I was just reading the thread about the 59 Ford truck that got the crappy air bag set up. If the guy has any kind of reputation, he should make this right. That's horrible workmanship.

 

I hate to say anything because I feel the OP got ripped off but he went with a shop that gave him a quote that was relatively cheap and a ridiculously unattainable time frame for what he wanted done. These were two warning signs that this was not the place to take his car regardless of how many had a good experience with this shop.

But having said that a truly reputable shop whould have never promised either and if having done so would live up to their end of the contract.

 

Let's say you and I enter into a contract and I am to sell you the rights to the golden gate bridge. For a small up charge I will construct you toll boths on either end. Make it as iron clad as you can or want. Give me a deposit and off I go.

Or enter into one to have a 7,000 sq foot home built for $49,000 dollars. Spell out every detail down to the smallest. Give me a deposit and off I go.

Contractors are the worst offenders, they need deposit money from job "B" to finish job "A". Pretty soon the need money from job "D" to finish job "B" and before too long it deposit money from job "S" just to finish job "D"

 

Would you be implying that body shops are not "contractors" just the same as above? I have been to 2 shops so far, and talked to about 6 or 8 others here locally. Every single one of them wanted money up front for "materials", or maybe it was to pay their employees for last week, who knows. What would the difference be? If he has 6 or 8 jobs going, they may or may not all be making payments, so to pay employees he is likely doing quickie insurance jobs, quickie fixes, or using deposits from B to pay A as you mentioned. Maybe there are places that say you pay as you go and only if your happy, but that wasnt what I was offered.

Just not sure where you were going with that, but in the end I am going to expect my damn toll booths to look like what we agreed on since I paid the small upcharge .

I am learning as I go here, just unfortunately the hard way.

 

a good rule of thumb to remember, especially if it's a 1st time for both of you. 1/3 up front, 1/3 half way through and 1/3 when finished and accepted. that way he has a time table to get his money, you have a shortened leg to stand on. let the lawyers fight it out.

alan

 

Exactly how we did it. Paid 1/3 day dropped off 11/19/2011, 1/3 in December 2011 when in primer then paid 1/3 when I picked it up 5/25/2012. Notice the gap here, WTF.

 

I look at the $4G loss as a $8 G loss, now all of it has to be removed and done right. I'd drive it and enjoy it until you can't stand it any longer. Too bad this seems to happen more than it used to. This is the exact reason I do it myself, then it's only me to blame. It just takes alot of money to set up shop to do this kind of work.
Good luck with it.

 

Another unqualified painter charging for work he is not qualified or disciplined to do. He can't even communicate and he signs detailed contracts that may likely hang him. Make this hurt by first communicating to him in writing that you are court ready and that you are ready to trash his reputation by showing his work to HAMBrs and saying shop name. . See if the
re is a written response or plan that is acceptable (ie give him a chance to show the judge). It's likely there will be no acceptable response . Small claims court is a hassle but the way to go. He has already probably been there! Try to get him to completely strip car for the next guy or get your money back. If its not a keeper, get him fix the trouble areas so you can sell the car w a marginal paint job. If its a keeper you won't feel good about the paint whether he fixes it or not! Good luck.

 

Paint is such a tricky thing. After working in shops for over 6 years, I have learned that you must really know and respect the painter before any of your own projects get touched by someone. A couple extra thousand dollars will be worth it in the long run.

 

I've read through to page 4 and it's enough for me. I've been watching this go on since the first shop F'd up. The second guy looked good when Todd met him, but the timing always made me shake my head. As some have said previously, you can't do a decent, let alone good paint job with all the bodywork needed plus the surprises, in 6 weeks. But, what's done is done. Chasing him will get nothing, IMO.
I agree with Alteredpilot and Special Sam. To make it right, the car has to be done over. From the beginning. Stripped to metal. all the weld repairs redone. All the bodywork redone. The block sanding redone. Paint redone. Final prep done. Panels aligned. Everything. This may sound pricky, but it's the only way. You can't touch up the paint or do any minor repairs without opening more issues.
What Special Sam said is true. If you quote a job and get a little or alot upside down, you still owe the customer what he's paying for. I've been doing everything on cars from mechanical to paint off and on for 40 years, never with more than a handshake and a list of whats to be done. Never had a serious issue. You make it right if there's an issue. Sometimes you eat the job. I have. But you deliver what you promise. Align the doors, seal up the glass and drive it until you have the money and shop to redo it right.

 

Welcome to the school of hardknocks. It's an expensive education. You know by now you are not alone as the many previous nightmare posts. However whatever you do, I would recommend you DO NOT let him anywhere near your car. As others have stated small claims is getting a judgement however collecting said judgement is another problem. Consider this tution & move on. Sorry for your losses , been in the same boat myself for much more money than that. It's been 6 years & I'm still repairing the last m##########s screwups. When the adjuster was done looking the car over after I had hit the racoon he asked who do you want to repair it . He looked kinda funny when I told him ME. Then I told him some of my horror stories. Kinda like yours but longer in time & 5 times more costly. I have no real answer for you(wish I did) but you need & probably will do want you feel is best for you. Some posters have said to learn to do it yourself but not all people are handy @ or like doing paint & body work. Some don't have the time or patience. Should you deceide to have it redone get some referals from the guys & gals here on the HAMB.
Anyone wanting to find out where not to go in the Boise, Idaho area get in touch with me by PM here.
Best wishes for you which ever way you go & don't get down on the car it's fine just needs some TLC

 

The really galling thing to me is the door seams where they are scratched when you opened them.

This dude under bid, and then cut all the corners to try and break even. The guy should have had an out in his contract -like "additional rust repair beside what is stated in the contract, is subject to additional charges at $xx/hr."

Sue in small claims court, and get a lien on his vehicle or house to ensure payment. I know there are those that just say "you'll never get anything out of him so why bother", but I would 'bother' just on principle.

Don't take the car back to him!

I would probably drive the car with that paint for a while, until it starts to look like real shit. Give you a year or so to either find a better shop or do it yourself.

Kelvin

 

No good shop should need/nor ask for money up front to cover materials!

 

I am going through a similar situation got a botched front end set up.

The steps I took

Contacted better business bureau
Contacted bureau of automotive repair
Contacted Los Angeles consumer affairs
And spent $85 filing a $9000 small claims court case

I personally would contact the shop and let him know you are going to be contcting the bove listed agencies as well as file a small claims suit but you wanted to give him a shot to refund you on X amount of dollars. If he settles with you to avoid the frustration then cool. If not contact the agencies and file small claims. It's easy and very cheap to do and if you win there are several options as far as getting paid and collecting on the judgement. File a suit for more than the $4000 you paid. Calculate the 6 months you went without car plus all the time on the phone and back and forth to he shop etc. I'm not a painter and I do not know all that goes into doing what you asked but I'm a firm believer in keeping your word. If this guys bid you too low that is HIS fault.

Good luck please keep us posted

If you paid by credit car dispute transaction