Best trans behind early hemi?

I recently picked up a '51-'53 331 Chrysler Hemi. When removed, they did a great job off keeping everything. The original fluid drive is behind it with the parking brake, all cables and accesories, and drive shaft stub. Question- are these worth keeping/overhauling? The plans for the engine are- 10:1, regrind cam, OE 4bbl intake. I am keeping the OE exhaust manifolds. I am not looking for a lot of power. I have seen many adapters out there and I have a 727, but I was really looking to stay late '50's build. I appreciate everyones advise/experiences!

 

The long bell housing is the stumbling block. If you had the short tail engine 54 up you could use Powerflite, or even early Torqueflite. Adapters for other transmissions are available. But for the long tail engine, the pickens are slim! Bendstens just stopped making adapters for long tail hemis, and Wilcap might not even make one.

 

hemi Tech Index Start reading! You best bet with a long tail is a stick.

 

The Fluid drive ****s. the '54 4 bl is the only OEM 4 bl intake that's a bolt on.

 

Don't know if it was the same engine pattern, but in the late 60s I had a 354? extended block hemi, with an old aftermarket aluminum bell with a LaSalle. That'd be old school. Toss the modern A/T's in the swap meet pile for the streetrodders and resto muscle cars Who'd want to drive one anyways, not me

 

I have foud that wilcap and hot heads make adapters. As you can see, the motor is complete. Mainly looking for a period correct trans.

 

I had looked at the lasalle briefly.....guess i need to do a little more homework on them. Can they picked up reasonably? Parts availability?

 

I read somewhere recently (may have been on the hemi tech thread) that the extended bell blocks can be machined to remove the extension and redrill and retap the trans bell housing mounting holes. Seems like it might be expensive but with all the extended bell blocks out there and the good late 331, 354 and 392 blocks getting more and more scarce, it might be worth consideration. I'm hoping my 354 block is usable. I've been hanging on to it for a long time. Getting ready to start the process of building it.

 

Side shift Cad and LaSalles are pretty cheap. The top shift 1937 is the expensive one. They all use the same bolt pattern bell. The side shift can be set up with a floor shifter with an old Hurst kit, or other brands, not hard to fab one up if you can't find one.

 

The Cad/LaSalle trans was used in Cadillac and LaSalle cars from 1937 to 1950, a few years longer on commercial ch***is. Up to 1938 or 39 were floor shift, the rest were column shift.

This was a popular hot rod trans in the fifties because they were so rugged. They were used behind all the OHV V8s, using various adapters.

Very scarce and expensive today. Not that common even in the fifties.

There are better transmissions including 4 speeds and 5 speeds today.

 

"better" for whom?

.

 

Hmmm a new ****** that's built for the power of a hemi vs a 50+ year old ****** that wasn't. Who sees a ****** anyway?

 

I have seen in the past a slant pan hydro adaped to the long bell hemis. I haven't done it so I can't tell what all is involved but I would think that if someone figured it out the first time it could be figured out today.

 

Not for sure what type of adapters are available for the long bell housing but I have a bad *** Hydro that came off of an Oldsmobile 371... I be willing to sell if that will help you out?

It's a Hydro-Motive basically like a B&M Hydro Stick.... I also have a couple of 4 speed bell housings off of short block 331's. I'm nor for sure if they will work on the long blocks or not?

but if either one will help you PM me...

Oh... and if you want I have 2 good short tail block 331's I would be willing to get rid of... they are both runners.

 

Does Kevin know you are screwing around on the HAMB instead of working?


Ray

 

Hydro motive was B&Ms compe***ion and they built a good transmission. I think that the hydro is almost a shoe in as the Olds blocks also had a long tail as compaired to a more modern engine.

Hey do you happen to have a spare transmission yolk floating around?

 

Who? What? LOL! Work? Yeah, Yeah I'm workin LOL! I'm checking the H.A.M.B.!

 

You can buy an adapter from hotheads that will adapt it to a GM 4 speed or a T5. Thats what I did and it could be late 50s early 60s with the right trans. Or you could use a T5 and have overdrive.

 

37 Packard floor shift ******s were in a lot of race cars in the 50's, they were stronger than the Cad/ LaSalle box.

 

Might want to check the original HP and torque rating of that early hemi "power".

But that's not the point. If a person wants an old build, it won't feel familiar with new major components.

This is why a lot of guys here still run the old Ford closed drive. They are in this to go beyond just "looking the part". Impossible to explain to someone who "does not get it."

 

But F&J does get it and that makes 3 of us. Besides some of us actually look underneath to see what is there.

Funny story, when the Ol' Man was in his late 60s we went out for breakfast at a popular spot on the SF Peninsula. I took a trip to the john then stopped to pay and when I get out in the lot I see these shoes sticking out from under this old pickup. I say, " What in the hell are you doin?" His reply is, "get under her son everything is chromed."

It happens.

 

If you stick with a late 50's package then the only trans will be Packard or Lasalle. The B&M hydro did not appear until early 60's.

If you want/need an auto trans then you will work for it. If you use a manual then there are many choices and you could, if you have the talent and equipment, make your own adapter.

.

 

How could I completely forget the dual range hydros? Yes, 55-56 Pontiac slant pans, 52-56 Olds regular or slant pan, or even 52-54 Cadillac hydros should be the ones I would be using for the conversion. Since all of the above have extended bells or front bell, then the hydro would be a natural for extended bell hemi's. Seems as if a thin adapter plate, along with a (hydro) flywheel to crank spacer would be all that is needed. The original Chrysler flywheel would be needed for the starter, and since the ring gear (I believe) is part of the fluid drive converter, then I would think a stick flywheel might be needed.

Another similar approach is to use a Powerflite or early Torqueflite, and adapt it to the fluid drive bell housing. The fluid drive, Powerflite, and Torqueflite all unbolt externally from the bell housing. Again a simple adapter plate between trans and bell is needed, along with probably a converter to crankshaft spacer.

Very interesting, wonder if a friend of mine still has the extended bell hemi from years ago? Would be interesting to adapt to the above transmissions.

Hope the suggestions help.

 

Not a matter of getting it or not. Have heard that the 51-3s were under rated @ 180 because that was a lot of power in those days & they were afraid that the real, higher, HP rating would scare off the old geezers that buy Chryslers. Then throw in a few improvement in the HP dept. Had a buddy who dropped a Chr 400 in his pick up, didn't think he needed to change axle. I figured it wouldn't work, but he says "Hey it's a truck axle". Snapped it instantly 1st time he tried to move the truck under it's own power. But what ever floats your boat.

 

And who is going to give the OP their phone number so when that "period correct" 60 year old transmission ****s out on the highway, he has someone to call for help? That is, if he could ever find the parts to even get it installed in the first place. Because reading through the posts so far, no one has any kind of idea of the parts that would be involved. Lots of guesses, thats it. Maybe one of these. Possibly one of those. Fact is...no one has a clue as far as an actual parts list...let alone ever finding any of it. This is for you that truely "dont get it". It is now 2012.

 

I seem to recall recently seeing an ad for a hemi to hydro adaptor. I thought it was on here, but a quick search didn't bring it to the top of the pile.
Mid/late 50s hydro would be pretty stout behind an early hemi. Make for a good package depending on the rear axle he planned on using.

So let me summarize what I got from your post:

- Don't trust old stuff, because it's liable to break down.
- Don't bother trying, because no one has the answer right off the bat.
- It's 2012, buy my billet hemi parts and buy a new transmission.

I'm not one for an internet fight, and I certainly don't know you at all. But it seems like you 'don't get it'. We're on a forum for old cars and hotrods. For many, that means we like the old stuff, would prefer to use old parts, and if something trips us up, we'll figure out a way to solve it.

Your way is not the wrong way by any means, but it may not be the right way for the OP. Just my 2 cents.

 

I think TR Waters' point is the difference between the "theoretical" and "practical application"..........finding the needed parts, once it is determined what they are....is the biggest challenge.

that said, the early hydro conversion sounds interesting.

Ray


Ray

 

Don't think this is factual..........think about it! Who made both transmissions?? General Motors........

Ray

 

The last I heard, Cad/LaSalle floor shift transmissions were $1200 and up, if you could find one. Then it probably needs a rebuild, if you can find the parts.

This is for a heavy 3 speed transmission.

Meanwhile I can find 4 speed and 5 speed transmissions for $50 to $500. Easier to get and easier to get parts for.

I'm just enough of a knothead to use the 3 speed if I could get one. But not enough of a knothead to spend an extra $1000 on it.

 

Hot heads or Wilcap adapter with a torqueflite 727 automatic. That's what I did with my 1952 Chrysler 331 that I put into a 34 Plymouth.