Any Civil/Structural Engineers in the HAMB house?

are you going to do burnout's on the deck?

 

I can see why you like Nimrods garage and I presume it is the "look" that you are after. It has already been said several times that you should consult your local code officials and I agree. In our area I have seen uninspected " new" structures have problems with insurance claims. My first thought is to do a slab on grade and overframe a wood floor to achieve the look you want. I think that would satisfy the building department and be less expensive. The recycled timber you have may not meet code required grading.
We are a steel shop but we also build steel buildings and we have seen some pretty unique projects built and you would never know there was a steel building underneath. My point is that it is the lipstick and makeup that will provide the final look and you can save on what is underneath.

 

My wife's family used to own a Ford tractor dealership, and the shop area was a wood floor built over top of the sloped floor of an opera house!!!

And that has nothing to do with me being a Structural P.E. either,,

Broman- anything is possible, it just takes time + money.

It sounds like a great project, and I would love to help out too, but I don't/can't work for free either. That said, drop me a pm, if you are serious, and this isn't just a pipe dream.

 

Didn't read all the responses, but I know Morton Salt (the table salt and water softner salt company) I used to work security at while in college had wood floors and 1/4" steel plates upon which propane fork trucks moving pallets of salt (2 ton bags). The floor carried the weight. The steel plates distributed the weight.

 

being the cheap bastard that I am, I had the regional college, structural class build me a storage shed/s for materials and donation. Our town says that buildings of under 100 sq ft do not need a permit or inspection. And substatially completed structures are also exempt from governmental intrussion. Now since I wanted more than 100 sq ft. So I had them build two 9x12 sections. These were made with 2 X 8 treated lumber on 12 inch centers as the base frame. This was skinned by 3/4 inch Plywood flooring. the outer walls are 2 x 4 frame structure with textured exterior sheathing, the roofs are supported by 2x6 framing. The basic design is is a single pitched roof, one shed is 7 foot at the low side and9 at the high end the other is 12 ft at the tall end, and 9 feet at the low end. there are two windows in upper wall. the is a man door on the side and a hinged pair of barn doors that are 7 x5 for a clear opening of 7 x 10.

The treated lumber base frame sits on a pad of compacted crushed stone about 6 inches deep surrounded by some land scape timbers. The two buildings were delivered near complete and the two open ends were bolted together on site, so I have 2, 8 x 12 buildings really really close together... Currently it holds a Austin healy sprite ( 1300 lbs +or-), a motorcycle (600) a lawn tractor (500) a snoblower, 4 bikes, a mopar flat 6 with trans (700) garden tools, and some miscelenious stuff. so the load on the floor is nearly 2 tons or more, plus the load of the walls and roof. It has survived for 18 years, including 3 years of over average snowfall, (140 inches or so) and one slightly less than hurricain force gale and a straight line wind of about 90 mph. It has not shifted, settled, warped or twisted inspite of the borrowing of about 3 wood chucks, and 10 or 20 chipmunks living underneath it.

Also have barn built in the mid 1800's that is built on grade with post and beam construction and wooden floor which is random width 2 inch thick native pine. It supports boats on trailers, cars, and other stuff. It has also be undermined by borrowing animals this floor is definately not flat any more but it still supports vehicles with no problems.

 

Someone's been peeking over my back fence!

 

Huge, huge numbers of cars parked on wood at this very moment. Lots of "portable" garages (wood sheds with garage doors), I haven't looked to see how they reinforce the floors but it can't be much. They stand up to 60s Chevys just fine. An old car dealer in town had a freight elevator in the back, kept a racecar stored upstairs, all wood, OLD. Wooden bridges everywhere, by the dozens, new ones being built all the time. I'd build it out of wood in a heartbeat 'cause I'm lousy with concrete, okay with hammering a nail. My only real concern would be the posts and soil, making sure they were deep enough. Keep in mind, I really don't know anything!

 

IF this is not the case, this is big waste of time. Don't you think that going to the city and asking what they REQUIRE would be the first step? Don't you think they will require nothing less than what is sufficient for your structure?

This has some of the soundest advice yet

 

From the 2009 International Building Code and Residential Code

Design live loads for a commercial parking garage (no trucks) is 40 psf.
Design live load for residential construction is 40 psf, sleeping areas 30 psf, balconies 60 psf, attics with storage 20 psf, attics without storage 10 psf.

Yes, you can park a car in your house.

 

Just be sure to properly cut the hole for the door first.

 

I would not recommend parking a car on a structure built like a house. The point loads at each tire patch area will far exceed the allowable limit of a residential structure. There's a reason parking garages are not built out of wood joists and plywood.

 

Impact loads, for one.

 

Yup. F = MA is a wonderful thing.

 

I haven't read through this whole thread but there are a lot of houses here in Australia with elevated timber parking structures. This is 100% possible with the right design.

I'm a civil engineer but to be honest this isn't really my field, pm me some info and i'll have a structural engineer friend have a look at it and give you a rough idea at what you'd be looking at. From then on you should see an engineer over there to get an approved design, if for anything just for insurance purposes.

 

To me the only worry is the floor being fire resistant and having pitch if it is built as a garage...IF it is built as a workshop that just happens to have a door big enough to fit a car through then making the floor strong enough is not a problem to me but the fire hazard still is from dropped fluids, car leaks, welding, ect..Great insulation and nice on the feet though...! Me personally would build the floor to house specs but doubled joists, half spaced support columns, sub floor with 2x6 used for top flooring..For a real good live idea visit some old barns/factorys..When in doubt build it stout..

 

You are correct, but didn't want to bore you with all details.

Floors in garage or portions of a building used for the storage of motor vehicles shall be design for the uniformly distributed live loads of Table 4-1 (40 psf) of the following concentrated load:
1. For garage restricted to passenger vehicle accommodating not more than nine passengers, 3000 lbs acting on an area of 4.5"x4.5" footprint of a jack and
2. For mechanical parking structure without slab or deck that are used for storing passenger cars only, 2,250 per wheel.

Impact loading? If the car is a rockin, don't come a knocking. Only impact loading in a garage is in the direction of travel for stopping and starting. Vertical movement is insignificant.

To the original poster, hire an engineer and provide them with dimensions on your plan. You should also ask yourself a question of why? If you just like the look of wood, perimeter foundation walls, pour a slab on grade, use wood framed walls and roof and throw down a wood floor if you want it.

Or build it exactly like a shed with wood sleepers on a stone bed and thickened subfloor. Can then be considered a temporary structure by your town and you can replace the whole thing when the floor rots out.

I deal with this stuff all day, every day. I would never design an elevated garage floor with wood, but what do I know.

 

You can certainly support two bikes and a car on a wood deck, it just has to be built right. The statement made earlier about wood not supporting 550 lbs over a square foot is not true. Wood is very strong in compression but weak in tension and bending. Put all of your 200 lb body weight on your heel on a board, it surely won't fail in compression. 550 lbs/144 sq.inches ( 1 sq.ft ) = 3.8 psi....nothing for wood. Where you run into trouble is is in tension and bending which is exactly what a floor joist sees when loaded. Top of joist is in compression, bottom of joist is in tension. As long as you use deep enough joists and space them close together with as short a span as reasonable the wood will work. For example my neighbor built a barn with 2x10 joists on 12 inch centers. He overlaid the floor with two layers of 3/4 T&G plywood glued and nailed . He stores his 60 hp Kubota and a bunch of other stuff on it ...no problem. Ya just gotta do it right.
Remember a wood floor is like a concrete slab.....its what is supporting it that really matters.

The other thing to remember about any floor load that is on a floor that will deflect under load is this. Yes there are 4 point loads when you place a car on a floor, but as the floor starts to deflect under load the load is spread and thus shared by the adjacent floor and substructure.

Be careful and get some sound advice people you trust.

John

 

why dont you just ask nimrod what he has for floor stucture. looks like part of the building is block. the elevation of the larger floor dosent appear high enough from grade to support the type of wood structure you would need to have wood sub structure. it might be a slab on grade finished in wood.

 

one of the side trips on this years power tour for me was the ford piquette st plant. the original factory had wood floors and is still standing afte a 100 yrs. supports dozens of cars even today

 

I'm not an engineer, but I'd bet if you run the numbers... a double 2x12 on 16" centers with 2 layers of 3x1 tongue & groove with the layers run perpendicular to each other would easily support your example.

 

My garage floor slab sees plenty of impact loading. I jack my car up occasionally to work on it and release the jack....sometimes a bit too abruptly. Maybe I'm the only one that does this?

 

You know, I'm another nobody. That being said, I'm the kind of person who would rise the the challenge of "can't be done/ random bullshit".

I don't like your idea, however, that being said, it can be done. Don't let all these naysayers dictate terms to you. I'm the kind of person who would do it just to prove these people wrong.

You can hold a fancy degree, whatever. In the end, real world experience is king. Timbers can do the job, albeit more expensively. That being said, appearance is king. I look forward to seeing the end job. Remember, cutting corners is no good.

 

I don't think anyone said that it cannot be done. Obviously, anything can be done.

 

Idk, I don't think a time machine can be done.

 

LOL. OK, you win that one.

 

I would check code,,the majority of elevated decks are not built to code which is why they tend to pull away from the main abode within a couple years

 

Lots of old barns support tractors that are alot heavier than a hot rod. We have boardwalks here on the ocean and on the bay and they drive trucks on them.

I worked out of a barn that had been turned into a shop. The wood was probably a hundred years old and well preserved from years of oil. Highly flammable though.

 

http://www.ideas-for-deck-designs.com/deck_load_capacity.html

 

Being a noobie here on HAMB I hesitate to post and piss off the O.P. - But do have some random thoughts.

Can it be done? Of course. But why?

I looked at Nimrod's, and understand the appeal. But to get the look, why go through all the trouble of all wood just to prove you can? A slab building would be a breeze to both build and get past zoning, and you can still make look as old and cool as you want. If you choose to floor it in wood, no one will know or care what is underneath.

As someone who does hobby woodworking (furniture) the thought of using all that probably beautiful antique barn wood for structure under the garage gives me the shakes.

But to each his own. I will say that when I was a kid my grandfathers barn was built into a hill. If you drove around to the far side you could drive into the loft level. It held a lot of hay, and on occasion his 64' F-100. The truck (and the hay!) always stayed up there.

Good luck whatever you choose.