Do Quality materials matter?

How do you know that floor jack you just bought is made of quality materials? American Metals are made to standards for a reason. If you are willing to get under a car with sketchy metal quality jack stands make sure your will is up to date. Metals are made of crystals that must be carefully considered when pouring the metals at the foundry. American Quality is our edge. Many people used to study materials but today we study useless history and unusable math.
Henry ford knew that Vanadium steel would flex and not snap. Know materials and we can control the future.

 

i keep a buda statue handy so i can rub his tummy when i go under a car. really though, i like short beam stock under the axels or tires. i keep a bunch of 4"x10"x24"s that i can stack up. the jack is just to get it up.

 

Uh, not quite. I'm majoring in Metallurgy and Materials Engineering, and the amount of physics and calculus we have to know would melt your brain. How would we be able to know the dynamics of materials or even remotely begin to define their characteristics without math?

 

Well useless math, Rene Descartes know as the father of Algebra as well as some really off the wall philosophy was around in th 17th century. A large part of the useless math that we use is based on his original theorems.

History usless? I am not sure where you are comming from, out hobby is based on history.

Poured metal jackstands, anyone that would crawl under a car with cast jackstands is just about as dumb as wood.

I think that maybe you should stick with your Pebble Beach stuff and leave the engineering end of it to those of us who have an understanding.

But yes one should always use the best quality that they can afford so at least some of what you have to say has some value.

 

Not gonna get on my soapbox but,,,,,. I pay bills by being a non-destructive tester,twelve years in the oilfield and ten in aerospace. You will get what you pay for. There are many countries that have good production standards-be careful where yours come from.

 

I have a few engineering degrees myself. Sure you can calculate the strength and test the material integrity of anything out there. At what cost? Are you wiling to spend maybe $3000 to fully test and certify a $150 Craftsman floor jack? Of course not, that's why we rely on the maybe so called experts that build what we percieve to be a quality product.

When I was married to wife #1, I had asked for a pair of nice jackstands for Xmas one year. What did I get... a piece of shit single stamped steel jackstand that I wouldn't rest a camper trailer tongue on. So, yes you do get what you pay for. In the case of my ass being under a car, I'll buy an American product over anything foreign and look it over carefully before I dig in my pocket.

Bob

 

Let us have it... What are you selling?

 

Bingo! We have a winner!

 

Piece of mind.
At a pebble beach cost..Includes hawaiian shirt of shame.

 

The floor jacks kinda scare me. Yet to see one i'd trust.
I use old steel wheels, and if i have to actually crawl under the car i will stack'em up.
Two steel wheels flat on top of each other are never gonna crumble on you. Call it ghetto, i wont mind.

 

Did you know The hour glass style Coca Cola bottles verticle will hold up a car?
The Chicago 13 year old street kids do.
Not advocating their use as jack stands, but.......

 

I am not absolutey sure what he is trying to say. I don't think that communcation is one of his better skills.

Having read over another of his threads I think that school may have been a struggle for him. Nothing to be ashamed of school was or is a struggle for a lot of people.

If I were giving advice today I may think that rather than start a thread that no one is going to understand or may start a fire storm (think the science behind winning Pebble Beach here) reading and adding to other threads is a good thing to do. One must remember post count is like money it is not a sure sign of success.

 

My father was born in 1906 and left school after the sixth grade to work and help support his family. He never stopped learning however, and retired as an engineer from NASA. He taught me to never, ever stop trying to learn new things and gain knowledge in all areas. One of the best things he told me was to always buy the best tools you can because good tools will out live you. That's a lesson I've taught my sons as well. With knowledge and quality tools you can conquer any problem.

 

I think the real question is,.... who in their right mind would climb under a car supported only by any hydraulic jack no matter where it is made. Get the car on jack stands. If you want to question the steel in jack stands then I personally think you worry too much. JMHO

 

I actually am thinking about sending the model A axle bell that I have made into jack stands off to be tested by at least 3 differet labs to make sue that they have the proper grain and when they were poured that it was done properly. As well as knowing what actual metal content that they have.

But I am going to insist that the metalurgist does not use any math in the process, because math is usless. It is a proven fact that historically anything built using an sort of equation or mathematical hypothesis is usless and dangerous. Historically speaking that is.

 

Ha! Proper...or..Whole Grains Beaner? Got ya!

They say that there are 150 different forms of Martensite alone.

 

This one time, at band camp.....
a guy sprained his fingers doing math !

Useless, scary, and dangerous - don't do it

 

I have a pair of old American made jackstands that I would not trust to be stable enough or strong enough to support a car with me under it. On the other hand I have other jackstands that are well designed and appear to be well made, and are foreign made, that I do trust and have for many years.
I may be wrong, but I feel that you can pretty much tell what is crap and what is reasonable quality by the design and level of finish on equipment (Of course there will be exceptions!). Look at it and feel it! A jackstand need to have some weight to it to have enough material to do the job. Mild steel in my opinion is adequate for a jackstand. Higher carbon steels would be risky if not heat treated properly.
If you are in doubt be redundant, use proper blocking as a backup!

~Alden

 

This all started 15 years at the counter of a Harbor freight. A customer brought in a vice. In the screw was a rock that was poured into the "steel". The vice was not in the position to take a life. The Bay Bridge was made of Chinese steel not for cost but because we no longer have the ability to compete in structural steel materials. I am not selling anything just the idea that science and history would be much more interesting if we focused on compelling automotive history. Harry A Miller Ed Winfield Leo Goosen can teach our youth many things. They didn't have high school diplomas they were able to sweep the floors and had mentors that would spend the time to teach the skills that they would need to become some of our best Industrial designers and builders. You could have great writing skills and be Pebble beach rich but that will not help build a hot rod. Before I posted anything here I have spent hundreds of hours in the Lab in the classroom .http://www.thehubsociety.org I turned around and gave to my cause to get more students involved in Industrial arts. James

 

Maynerd Krebbes could do math with his toes when he was barefoot. It doubled the size of the numbers that he could use.

I do understand the whole usless math concept, the slope intercept equation is pretty basically usless in almost all instances when figuring the circumference of a circle.

Brings me to an old arguement between two mountain williams:
PI R square, no pie are round. Is not, is too.

Hey see if you can make this simple equation out:

MR piggs
MR not
MR2 CDBD eyes.
OH, MR piggs.

 

Uh the bay bridge was built before I was when we still had a strong steel industry, you dumbass. I guess history was not your strong suite.

 

Many people used to study materials but today we study useless history and unusable math. Henry ford knew that Vanadium steel would flex and not snap. Know materials and we can control the future


God help us all if this the common mentality of an educator today !

 

For a number of years, both at home and as a professional mechanic, I trusted floor jacks. Over time several people I knew or had met were killed by floor jack incidents. I eventually decided it was time to quit asking for trouble I didn't want. I now use jack stands as needed and never trust a jack alone.

Even the best floor jacks are not made to industrial hydraulic standards. If they were they would be VERY expensive. The includes everything from materials, heat treating, fits and tolerances, and chroming and grinding of shafts. Cheap jacks push the limits even more than good ones. After I learned a little about how jacks re made I trust them even less. At this point most floor jacks are made in China. I know this is a generalization, but considering their track record with this kind of thing, and the short life those jacks typically have, that tells you how they feel about materials and quality.

 

The Reconstruction of the bay bridge is not yet complete.

 

You get what you pay for? Sometimes you don't even get that.

 

To address the original question of whether quality materials matter or not, I've got a little hands on insight on the matter, on steel in particular. I'm not an engineer, metallurgist, or an Indian chief, and I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn laste nite for that matter. But, I have been around the intigrated steel biz for some 38 yrs. Itigrated means we make it from skratch, just like grandad used to. Make the coke, make the iron, make the steel, roll & finish it. Unfortunetly, this is a endangered industry in the U.S., thanks to well....I won't even get into that hellstorm.

Point is, every heat of steel has a specific recipe, like a cake, if you will, depending on the application to the end product. It is a science, and a very exacting one. The metallurgist's, melters, and everyone else right down the line, gotta know their shit, or they just made a whole lot of new scrap. I've seen it. Quality matters, infact, it's all that should matter. Unfortunetly, that concept isn't the priority it once was. There are exceptions, of course.

Is what it is, as they say. Hold on to your old Iron boys, 'cause they (Ho Sun Yung) just don't make it like grandad (& we) used to.

 

A 9 month old bridge just fell down. For the story on Chinese steel and the bay bridge here is the link. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...zIGgAw&usg=AFQjCNEfm8GAMk4gwTsn5n_frnr5Z4FnxQ

 

Carbon maker, you appear to have Internet access. Could you do me a favor and fact check some of the things you say? According to the new York times, the new portions of the golden gate bridge are being made in china because of an estimated 400 million cost savings in labor. That's a quote from the man in charge of the project, he might know. You seem to have zeroed in on a one line quote from a director of some industry study group who said" I don't think Americans could even d a project like this". Givin the quote was in a paragraph about how the bridge will be shipped in sections and will be attached and completed here, he may mean that, not the steel bridge part of the project...

 

You said nothing about reconstruction but you were correct on your first guess some Chinese steel was used in '36, it had nothing to do with quality or cost it was a diplomatic deal, and no I don't intend to prove it to you open a damned book for yourself.

 

I don't think anyone disagrees that America doesn't produce as much or as well as it used to, but I think all these doom and gloom "hold onto your hats cause china is taking over" posts get old fast. If you want America to be a industry leader again you need to leave your comfy salary and 401k and start your own company like your forefathers did. They learned what they needed to through trial and error and perseverance, with elbow grease and ingenuity. Posting on the hamb about America sucks now isn't gonna change anything. Put your house up for collateral against a business loan and set out to build things the right way yourself, then you won't need to bitch about what is available to buy.