Projects Late 60's Vintage Modified

Just to show that I haven't been slackin off too much...

This is Monday afternoon:



And this is tonight....



Been quite a week of progress (especially since I only got to work on it 3 nights) but its alot more motivating to see it back on its feet again

Ran into a few issues lately that I've been tackling... Bought a 4.10 ring and pinion for it, but of course the part number didn't actually go to this model and ended up with one for a Dana 60 instead. Looking it over and talking with a couple knowledgable guys it COULD have been made to fit... But it would have required alot of machine work ($$$) to make it fit. Then I went to a couple junkyard looking for rears, mostly at Dana 60's, and found one, but then talked it over again with some people and decided just to put the rearend that I have back together again and run it... Can always change it in the future.

The rear suspension is real funky... Homemade 2 link set-up, which was sort of ahead of its time back then, but they never really went all the way with it.. Here's some pictures to kind of show it:







When I put it in the car, the rear automatically wanted to twist and the pinion was facing way up and the tires were hitting the side bars. I knew the suspension was going to need some help but the ratchet strap is holding it in a decent position and it should be easy to take out a little more metal to get the pinion level and then weld a plate or a couple thick washers to the top of the crossmember to keep it there. Then I'll be building some radius rods out of aluminum like out of a newer stock car. Not really the most authentic, but hey I have it available and once it's painted black I doubt most will know the difference...

Also one the rearend when I decided to put it back together, I didn't really want to deal with the welded spiders on the road (especially with how big the tires are going to be on the back) so I started messing with it and found only one actualy weld was still holding it (the rest had broke) so I used a plasma cutter to cut the weld, took the spider gears apart, and then carefully took a die grinder and got rid of the welds. Not exactly the most popular/correct way to do it, but hey this ain't Nascar.







Also had to deal with the drag link... Originally they just used the stock drag link and cobbed it into the Chevy steering box with only a few threads on the end holding it and of course they were pretty stripped... Hadn't paid any attention to it when I took it apart so that was sort of a speed bump when I went to put it back together. So then my Uncle talked me into just making my own out of the aluminum I had for the radius rods. Never really worked with this stuff before, but it was pretty easy. Might have to do some adjusting with it, but the steering actually seems to go pretty good turning the wheel.





Also managed to find a transmission a couple weeks back. Been looking all over for one asking all the guys I know, and then I just happened to talk to a guy at a local cruise night and he said he had one. So he brought it with him the next week to the cruise night and I picked it up there so that worked out alright.

Hopefully soon (meaning tomorrow) I can get the engine/transmission in there for mockup.

 

Great progress Shaun!

 

Had some more time yesterday and this afternoon. Dropped the motor/trans in. Went pretty good considering I did it by myself, I've only done it once before and I only had a regular car lift to do it with.





I guess I know why they torched that section of the frame out now..



So I've been thinking that this car last ran with a 3 speed out of an F1 because of the transmission crossmember they built had two holes close together. But after getting the rear mount, it wasn't even close. But then I got to looking at the other mount they had where a bolt was sticking up and it looked close and of course this trans bolted right to it. Looks like they cut out the other side of the mount for some reason..

But if anyone has any idea what other transmission it might have had I'd be curious to know.. The crossmember sit back maybe 2 or 3" from the end of this F1 transmission, and the only two holes for bolts are in the center maybe and inch or two apart. I'll try to get pictures tomorrow of it to help with ID..



So I had good luck with the one transmission mount, but the motor mounts were a different story...





Any ideas what might have cause this? Is it because it's an 8ba instead of the older style flatheads? Or maybe they had a transmission that set back a little more?

There was also a fitment issue on the driver side by the steering box...



Looked like quite a tight fit for even a stock manifold let alone headers

But then I remembered that with the rubber mounts it'll probably sit up another 1" or so which would help.

So I took out the motor mounts that were in it thinking I'd have to make some new ones, but then I held them against the frame and moved them forward about and inch to line up with the water pump holes and it looked like they'd fit. So I got out the welder and welded them to the frame but not permanent so I could rework them if I had to. I was able to get the rubber mounts in after that so it looks like those motor mounts will end up working in that position

(Had to go out and get a new engine crane of course )



Hard to tell from the picture but I gained quite a bit of clearance by the steering box. The dipstick tube still hit the box but just barely so I'm sure something could be done about that.




Looks like the radiator might be a tight fit......



Anyways thanks for following guys. Means alot to hear feedback and get answers to alot of questions. Sorry my posts are kinda long winded though!

 

It's looking great! Nice progress.
Tom

 

cool man! could have also ran a SBC with the front plate biscuit mount at one time, hence the other trans bolts? or a cadillac v8(49-62) with 1949 biscuit mounts on it.(i believe olds rocket motors used the same mounts too)

as far as the flathead trans, theres like 10 different trans mounts, the early mounts will bolt to the later ones, the early ones are a flat disc with ears on the side and a rubber ring holding the carrier in the middle. then theres a few varients of the one you have, i have one thats open drive, but has a housing that comes down and to the rear with 2 bolt holes at the bottom.(no idea what its from!) its pretty easy to mate another trans in a flathead, it could have had anything. i heard early packard transmissions were popular.

oh also, ford has these spacers that went above the rubber part of the mount, i have them on my T bucket. they are off set holes! the ones they sell now are straight, but you get the idea. http://www.speedwaymotors.com/1935-1940-Ford-Mercury-Frame-Adapters,6671.html

look closely you can see them here.

 

im also wondering why the hell that they put a model A rear crossmember in it??? to use that type of model A spring or?????????????????

is it set back from the axle center a few inches? if so im willing to bet that it had a banjo rear in it at one point, with a spring behind(post model A) but using the model A spring.

like this here.

 

AS far as the transmission is concerned: It might be that they ran a 4 speed non syncho truck box in it. With the real deep rear end gears those guys ran, they could use a tough truck box and run top gear. Ease of shifting wasn't an issue on a round track. In my area (NW Ohio) the "real racers" ran that combo: 3/4-1 ton rearends with truck transmission. The rest of the guys used Ford passengercar (banjo) rearends where the gear selection was limited to 4.44 or 4.56 so they had to use 2nd gear in their three speed transmissions.

 

Gotta love those old stock cars, I run a Vintage 62 Falcon dirt modified and having all kinds of fun with it. check out 3 Wide Vault for pics of old stock cars from the 50's to 80's. You'll also find links to other sites on there.

 

I recently restored a 1967 Camaro modified stock car that ran on the central coast of CA. The technology on your car Shaun is the most important part of this build. Preserving it is the key. I personally would not attempt to make the car street legal. There are vintage race programs in your area. Get that car back on the track. BTW.... did you weld the panhard mount back on??? I saw that you had cut it off.... it might have been a 2 link car but the technology then also had 4 link. I run a 4 link Monte Carlo Stock car. Coil spring technology is technical and geometry is paramount. There are lot's of websites that have super cool peeps living near you who can help. Reach out. Do your research. You have something that is one of a kind. Keep it that way.

 

Thanks Tom!

Definately possible that they had a SBC or a different OHV engine in it. One guy I talked to that said he remembered the car said it had an oldsmobile motor in it, but then when I started asking more and brought up the number he said he didn't know it ever had a number on it so I don't know how good that info was...

I've never seen those spacers before either thanks for the link. Hopefully I can run the exhaust out now but those would certainly help if I need it.

Good catch on the Model A crossmember too! Never caught that, not a big expert on early Ford's. Right now the crossmember is centered over the rearend because of how the bolts/springs are set up but they could have moved it because I'm pretty sure they changed the rearend at some point.

Thats certainly possible... I've got a truck trans over there and never looked at how it mounted, that could be possible though especially with the 5.83 gears, wouldn't have to shift much. However this is the style clutch release lever it had when I got it:



I know this goes to a '39 style trans but I'm not sure what else it might fit? I know the big truck trans I've got and the F1 trans I put in have the different style release lever, but maybe the early ones are different?

I'll have to check that out... Always helpful to see other cars and see how they set up the motor/trans/suspension and such. Did you restore the car?? There's a couple groups around that run vintage races but I haven't been to too many of those yet.

Thanks for the input. I know it goes against the grain to put it on the road, but I'm going to make it as close to possible to "as-raced" condition. That way in the future if I ever want to, I can take it back off the road and keep it as a vintage racer. A few people have told me that I should cut all the bars and cage off, make the doors open and close and then make it a street rod, but that doesn't interest me at all. It is still a race car, and while I might use it on the road it's still going to be a vintage dirt car. The only real changes I'm planning are around the radiatior support and I'm going to use a fuel cell instead of the Volkswagen tank (I'm going to leave the VW cap and filler sticking through the trunk to make it look like it did) as well as the windshield. I'm going to keep all of the old parts with it of course so that it can be changed back. In order to run with the local vintage racing tours though they require more mofications (5 point harness, regular racing seat, drivers side of the cage needs at least three bars, 1 gallon radiator overflow, etc).

For the panhard bar do you mean the bolt coming off of one of the plates? I didn't cut it off of the plate, I just painted over it so it might look like it's gone. There wasn't any panhard bar or even a place where one might hook, so I'm really not sure what their plan was their unless it was a work in progress they never got to. The coil springs are definately becoming an issue. It wouldn't be so bad except I have few good places to measure the distance from, they weren't really too concered about it being perfectly square at the time.


Anyways thanks for the replies and all of the knowledge!

 

"For the panhard bar do you mean the bolt coming off of one of the plates? I didn't cut it off of the plate, I just painted over it so it might look like it's gone. There wasn't any panhard bar or even a place where one might hook, so I'm really not sure what their plan was their unless it was a work in progress they never got to. The coil springs are definately becoming an issue. It wouldn't be so bad except I have few good places to measure the distance from, they weren't really too concered about it being perfectly square at the time."

You will have to make it square. I don't know a a car builder who would have built the car square. Its supposed to be shorter wheelbase on the left or at least have a right side lead.... it went in circles..... they did everything they could to make it turn left effortlessly.
The coil spring rear end is an awesome ride once you figure it out. The rear end of an early eightys G-Body or "Metric" car will give you all the inspriation you need.

 

Looking at some pictures it's definately a similar set up to my car, or what my car will end up with after radius rods. Would you recommend I build a panhard bar for it, or leave it like it was?

 

Maybe these photos will help to identify the trans....







I looked at the truck transmission that I have and there are two bolts that hold it in, but they looked alot further apart then these two holes that were drilled.

 

A panhard won't be necessary for the street... Making it a four link like a G-body will give the car a great ride and keep the rear end stable. If you put it on the track you will need to add a j bar and a panhard......

 

Had to pull the car out today....





In order to unload this from the trailer using the lift and then set it on the car after pushing it back in..





My favorite view (although the photo doesn't really look as good)..



The hood will need a little "massaging"















Aside from the old battery box on the firewall, that is the ONLY rust on the body.... Not bad for almost what 80 years? And I know it spent the last 20-40 of those years in the woods....

Also got the rear suspension all done, just forgot to take pictures of it. Built some radius rods using new style aluminum for stock cars nowadays. Also fabricated some peices that fit over the jacking bolts to make them stay in place. Just jumping on the bumpers shows that it gives it a nice suspension now.... Certainly better then the original set-up!

 

Great job on that car! I love the old coupe modifieds, brings me back to when I was a kid. Keep up the the good work, If you know of any others laying around some where I would love to find one to restore also.

 

im willing to bet that, that car was rusty when it was a race car.... they didnt turn a gem into a race car for no reason! lol anyway, the car looks sweet!!!

 

When I was in high school, I helped an older guy, probably in his 30's, build the typical modified. 32 Chevy coupe body. He was worried about how the rust out along the bottom of the body would look, so his remedy was to sheet metal screw some thin metal over the rust out. He was more worried about how well his cage would hold up....

 

Thanks for the comment! They're getting harder and harder to find nowadays... I know of a few around but like alot of old cars, the guy that owns it is "going to get around to fixing it up soon" but we all know how that goes haha

Haha I'm sure your right! Probably the rest of the car was all rotted, or maybe even wrecked when it got turned into one of these old jalopies... Funny what was junk then is gold now!

Yeah that was definately a bigger concern to most guys haha... Although there was a couple guys around that instead of using black iron pipe like this car or something similar, used almost all electrical conduit to make their roll cage... Saved alot of weight but I know I wouldn't want to race in one!

 

Rolled it outside the other day and got a couple better pictures of it... Flathead's giving me some trouble now, so not sure what to do about that yet...

 

Shawn, If that rear suspension gives you too much grief, you might want to think about a late 60's chevy truck rear setup. Probably would be a more streetable setup. Just a thought. Keep plugging.

 

Back when the actual old timers ran things at NEAR you could actually take a REAL old car out and go around...Pretty much as fast as you wanted during the afternoon and then a more tightly controlled show at night. Didn't even need a firesuit. Now actual old cars are being mutilated to pass safety requirements that never existed so guys can think they are really racing....nothing wrong with that, but they have now become late model cars with coupe bodys, and a little something has been lost. Kind of funny the midgets still run without a cage, but the bureaucrats now get to inspect your stock car. Quite a few friends have cars that they don't want to "update", so they sit in garages or go to still shows. Keep at it , maybe a new class or club will spring up with enough interest.

 

Actually, I've got the rear-end set up pretty good now... Just forgot to take some good pictures of it before I set the body down. Off of the big plates they added on top of the spring perches, I welded a Grade 8 bolt and then made up a radius rod on each side using heim joints and special aluminum tubing. Then I welded some thick washers on top of the crossmember to keep the two big bolts they had steady. I was kind of afraid the bolts would drag and bind up on the washers, but it actually does really good just jumping on the side bars. Doesn't bind or squeak and has pretty decent suspension.

When the body comes back off I'll definately get a couple pictures... Be alot easier to understand what I'm talking about haha

I've seen exactly what you're talking about... People say they have "vintage" cars... But its just an old body on a newer modified chassis. Really takes away from the whole idea in my opinion... That's kind of why I've stayed away from trying to put the car into STAR or NEAR and turn it into a street rod instead. Running it as a street rod (aside from the lights) will probably be alot more original then if I had to make it pass NEAR/ STAR inspections!

 

I grew up watching cars like that. Keep up the good work!

 

Well haven't got too much to show in pictures for progress, but alot of little stuff has been finished. I got the motor put back together, painted, then assembled the clutch and trans and put it in the car together. I finished up the frame in the front, and painted the inside of the frame rails before putting the motor in making things alot easier later. Probably seems backwards (does to me too) but I'm not sure how long I'll be able to have all my space because one of our family business' trucks has to stay in that garage during the winter. So I figured I could put all that in, and move my engine stand/lift and free up alot of room (plus its always satisfying to see the motor going back in a project car..).







My radiator turned into quite a project after the motor was in... I found an old Chevy radiator in a barn, took it to a radiator shop, but when the guy tested it the core was cracked along the middle. Fortunately the guy has an extra one just the same size, so he added the 2 water necks for the flattie and put on the side brackets that were on my radiator for $80. But one my motor was in, I found alot of fitment issues with the fan and hoses. So after some flipping the side brackets around, notching the frame a hair more then they originally did back in the day, and then making a bunch of brackets off of the the other brackets, I've finally got a radiator that fits perfect (now I just hope it'll cool well enough!).

Can't really tell much from these pictures, but this is how the radiator now sits, where most of the radiator is between the two side bars, where before most of the radiator was behind these two side bars, too close to the fan.









The front shocks have been another issue. Both of the shocks were too pitted to get any sort of numbers off of, and they were off of different cars so finding something exact would have been pretty hard, plus I wanted to have them both the same shock. So after talking to a buddy he suggest going to the local 4x4 shop that does alot of lifted Jeeps.. Sure enough he had a pair of old Jeep shocks out in the scrap bin he let me have. Worked great for the car, just had to make up some new mounts... Have to get some better pictures later.





The past couple days have been pretty big, but the camera was dead and I just remembered to bring it home tonight. Anyways, as you can see I cut off the old grille they had made to get the motor in better, but I've been working on a new one using the same mesh they had used (made out of stainless steel I think... Doesn't rust, non magnetic, but seems stronger/heavier then aluminum). Also made the drive shaft for the car today. Been searching for a Ford 16 spline yoke for this trans for a couple weeks and didn't turn up anything, but after some research found that Spicer makes them brand new for $80. Same as a 55-63 Chevy Powerglide trans yoke.

A guy that was big into racing back in the day (actually ran against this car, but he doesn't really remember it) gave us a bunch of old parts when he was cleaning out his barn including an old driveshaft. So he came down to the shop this morning and explained how to shortne a driveshaft for the car. Thought it'd be real hard, but really it was alot easier then I expected. So I've finally got a driveshaft for the car with new U-joints. Hopefully soon I can temporary rig up some equipment and actually move the car under it's own power for the first time in probably 40 years!

Anyways, thanks for looking!

 

Coming along...















Just a rough first coat... Lot of "holidays" can be seen haha

 

Haven't had much for updates lately, so I thought today would be a pretty good day to show...

I'd say it's a milestone for the restoration... For the first time in probably 40 years, the car moved under it's own power.

Kinda hard to believe it was just a rotted out frame witha body sitting on it 5 months ago....









Not a very good picture, but here's how the rear suspension kind of ended up:



Just a real temporary hookup for now... Extra battery for the coil, jumper pack for the starter, and an old oil bottle for the gas can, but at least I don't have to push it anymore!

Pretty big moment for me personally working on vehicles too... I've been involved with alot of old cars, but this was the first real time I've gone through this much mechanical work. First time I've actually put a motor in a car, gone through the engine, put the clutch together, shortened a driveshaft, gone through a rear differential (even un-welding the spider gears) and today I finally got to see that work pay off.

With this new progress, I've got a lot of questions too, mostly about the flathead (might have to make a new thread). This thing is really guzzling gas. If I let it idle for 10 minutes on it's own, it'll drink a quart of gas. I know this little flatty shouldn't be using that much.... So what's causing this thing to run so rich?

I know little about carbs, so I'll probably end up buying a rebuilt one pretty soon. After pulling the plugs twice, all but one are black and real sooty looking. I'm guessing that's from the extra gas?? Although I'm sure it had to burn off the last 30 years of crap that had been sitting in there... The one plug that isn't all black is wet and looks like it hasn't really fired. I checked it and it's got spark, but what would cause that, other then too much gas?

Also got some questions on the cooling system...

I know flathead are notorious for cooling problems, and everyone has told me that the radiator I have probably won't cool it. It's out of some 60's Chevy pickup (I think), but it is quite wide and 3 cores. After getting everything running and letting it idle for 20 minutes (at least) the upper radiator hoses aren't really too hot. I can grab right onto them and not be bothered. I was always told that idling is the hardest time to cool an engine because there's no air from the road going through the radiator, but is it safe to say now that this radiator will keep it cool??

Also noticed a water leak with the driver's side pump... It's leaking out from the block side where the pulley shaft goes into the pump. I'm guessing this means a new pump is needed?

Anyways, thanks for looking and any help on my (many) questions is greatly appreciated!

 

congrats! well done.

 

Wow, that came together real quickly, and looks real. That's a really straight body too. Cool that you got the spiders to work again, I'm trying to put a modern locker in an old Highland quickie...every thing is riveted together from Henry Ford, and my cold chisel is getting a workout.... By the way, make sure you don't put vinyl on that , (not that it's any of my business), even a bad lettering job is better! Looking good.

 

For your carb issues, check your float level, it may be flushing gas straight through it is over flowing the float bowl. make sure your needle and seat valve at the fuel inlet is closing all the way when the float is up. A bit of debris in the assembly can hold it open so the bowl over fills. check that your internal power valve is getting is vacuum signal which should hold the valve closed at idle. ths assumes that your choke butterfly is fully opened. Nice to have it moving under its own power. Oh by the way pull the dipstick and smell the oil. If it smells of gas, that confirms the over flow deal and it will need to be changed as fuel does not make a good lubricator.