Fitting Model A Radiator: Hits Fan!!!!!

With out that center crossmember, you'll have a bit of movement in the engine/trans/t.tube/rear while driving at different times. I don't think you want only an 1/8" of clearance.

Don't B engines have some type of "stay bars" to keep them from moving?
I know that's slightly off topic.

One other thing, I don't know if there are differences between early 28(as you said earlier in your post) and the normal 28-31 timing covers but, if not, you could use that cover along with the front float-a-motor mount. It's considerably more substantial than the original mount and with a little metal shaping, doesn't look out of place.
I'm using one on my A motor.

 

Here is a link showing the timing cover variations. Rod

http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/timingcovers.htm

 

No you are still chasing your tail because you have the motor positioned to far forward. If the hood fits the radiator shell and cowl correctly the the radiator is positioned correctly. In the correct position you should just be able to get the castle nut off the water pump but not remove the fan without removing or loosening the radiator mounts. The rear of the block head should be about 3/4" away from the firewall vertical not any more.

 

It may be slightly off topic but very important. The 4 and V8 engines in the '30's from Ford used "stay bars" (usually called anti-chatter rods or engine steady rods). On the B there was a bracket that bolted to approximately the same location on the flywheel housing that was used for the rear engine mounts on the Model A. A rod ran between the bracket and the center K member. I am sure Kane is planning on using these in his installation but just didn't address this topic.

Charlie Stephens

 

Dick, 3/4 of an inch from back of block to indented part of the firewall? I'm about I'm about 1 3/4 there but 3/4 from flat where terminal box mounts on the flat of the firewall.

 

I went to go check mine, its about a finger/thumb space from shaft/nut to rad. I had 4 blade which I had to bend the blades slightly, but went back to my old 2 blade cause the blade welds broke from the pulley.

 

If the radiator is thicker and the grill shell is in the right place then it will protrude back toward the firewall more, it cannot stick out through the grill shell.

 

For the immediate situation...you still have the A crossmember up there, right? Model A and '32 B (not '33-4) have mount holes in same place, use an A front mount to measure and see if it drops into the hole properly. I too think engine has to be too far forward.
Both the A front mount and the A rear end should serve as measuring tools here as B engine/trans unit is the same length as all A. You can't run the A mount but you can use it to measure here. If engine is indeed too far up installing rear axle is going to pull the wheels forward against spring when you bolt tube to trans. "33 pump can't fix that...and using it requires '33 front cover and a front mount bar of a different width, so it opens multiple cans of worms for you.
AA used same pump and fan as A of course.

 

Bruce, I had the same idea with seeing if the A front mount dropped in correctly, unfortunately, even though I have the original A front crossmember in place, the rear mounting hole was cut out as the frame was originally being fit to a flathead and was cleaned up for a nicer look. Darn. Hmm is there a way to check if I'm too far forward with the rear end? it is currently in but not hooked up to the trans. Man I hope I don't have to reposition the k member thats already welded in.....

 

K member was positioned by a good friend who has installed many of them and had precise measurements so it should be correct, but.....

 

Try contacting someone in a local Model A club. See the directories at mafca.com or modelaford.org for local clubs. Maybe attand a local Model A show. Your car is still close enough to stock to be "acceptable" to the Model A guys. Ask if you can check the distance between the engine and firewall.

Charlie Stephens

 

I already had it all together with a '37 flathead and a '39 Trans and the tourque tube fit up nicely. Now I have changed the plan to '32 B motor and '32 Trans. K member should be correctly located if flathead, and trans mated up to the tourque tube no?

 

Should be...tail of trans should be the same

 

Exactly. This is why I think it is the AA rad possibly? Just have to wait till the A rad arrives and see I guess.

 

It just keeps me up at night so I keep tryin to figure it out!! haha

 

A and AA used same pump and fan. I think there is a service bulletin detailing the thick radiator but don't have it here. I don't see how the new radiator could have extended back, and I believe it is noted for leaving a bigger gap at front of hood.
On torque tube...if trans rear was too far forward, I believe you could still bolt up the tube..but it would be a wrestling match to pull and twist the rear spring and wheels would be moved forward by the amount of the mismatch.
I would stop thinking and go find someone with a stock model A to measure firewall spacing and to establish also usable reference points between engine and front crossmember (probably measuring to spring center bolt), rear trans flange and maybe the A center crossmember or whatever else you can find to measure from.

 

I really doubt that this relates to anything but it is a distant possibility: A/B water pumps have a thrust surface in cylinder head casting. Rebuilding a B pump usually entails pressing the B impeller onto a readily available A pump shaft. If said job was done wrong or the shaft was ineptly made as many of the repros are, any extra length would push fan forward. Pump alone would have in this case a lot of endplay which would be locked forward once pump fit against the surface in block...just another place dimensions could go strange.

 

Yes the location should be correct. My only question is did you draw the torque tube forward with the attachment bolts and just not notice it since you weren't looking?

Charlie Stephens

 

I just have to many things that could be wrong running in my head now. The water pump is a repro and actuall the shaft has like 1/8 of slop when you push the fan in and out. I just need to start somewhere and need some measurements. No body with an a close by...... Firewall measurements would be good, but the earlier 3/4 from block to firewall is that from indent in wall or? Geeez I need a nap.

 

I am having similar issues with b motor and Trans and k member. Have b head, pump, model a radiator. I've measured everything I can as far as chassis goes and everything is right on with model a stuff. Torque tube bolted up easily, using model a front mount, etc.
My rad is an old aftermarket 28-29 unit that has a date tag soldered to the top tank from 1940. it does fit really poorly overall, though. I don't have the body on yet, so I can't check for hood fit.
Sent from my DROID device using the TJJ mobile app

 

Guys... the radiator and shell really only fit in one spot without modification.

 

How about this measurement anybody?
Rad to Crank Pulley.

 

Any other measurements appreciated.
Firewall (state if to indent or not) to back of block

 

I can get you measurements off my chassis, tomorrow evening.

 

Thanks Brent

 

Kane,

Is the original front crossmember still in your car and intact so it could be used as a basis for measurements?


Charlie Stephens

 

Yes and no. It is in there but rear hole trimmed off for flathead application on prior build. I have most of the cut out piece though..... Hmmm

 

I just took this pic for you. This is my 30 coupe with a "B" motor. I laid a straight edge along the front of the firewall. As you can see, it is in line with the rear of the rear driver's side head stud. Also, I have approximately 5/8" of clearance between the fan castle nut and the radiator.

Hope this helps,
Mitch

 

How is that straight edge sitting? Flat on firewall or on its edge? Hard to see.

 

Just dummies up the front a float mount. Lands exactly center of its cross member hole. So gotta be right. Right? Got about 5/16 fan clear now? Carb gav rod lines up but starter rod is 3/4 of an inch too far back? Argggggghh! Will post some pics tommorow.