Aluminum connecting rods?? Where'd they go??

see and read... http://sdparts.com/details/gm-performance-parts/12495071



SD and pace two places that have good GM parts

http://paceperformance.com/search.html?q=connecting+rods

 

If you can't find manley ( I believe that they still market aluminum rods for small block) get carillos.

Niether is going to be cheap like in the 800-1200 dollar range and you may have to order and wait for them.

 

Since aluminum rods have "last longer than the rest of the engine" durability, I wonder why Toyota and Honda(two of the most durable cars made) don't use them. Maybe it's cost. Honda doesn't use them even in their motorcycles. Caterpillar and ***mins don't mind spending more for something that's better. Why aren't they using aluminum rods? Lycoming doesn't use them in airplane engines. Why is that? Apparently, unlike you, those guys are all just "un-informed" dumb***es?

There's no arguing that BME considerable upgraded the capability of aluminum rods compared to was was being made before he came along. But, if you are saying that aluminum rods are as good as steel ones, THAT is a "crock of un-informed BS".

I do agree with you that he doesn't need to spend a ton of money for premium rods.

 

again no$#!T +1

 

It's ok to say "****" on here.... You won't get booted for it...

 

Duty cycle of an alu rod has more to do with rod cap torque cycles. Teams that pay attention to their equip use a bolt thread gage (go-nogo) and if the gage wont go in the rod is junk because the threads are beginning to pull which starts the th bolts to lose effective clamping which leads to them breaking. However the devistation is so great most people cant determind what happened first, so they just blame it on the material. I have put over 100 p***es with a blown SB on the same rods but have torque them 4 times total.

 

Took my comment COMPLETELY out of context, you have a bright future in politics. The comment I made was that the aluminum rods will outlast the rest of a big hp street engine. Not sure WTF that has to do with modern, 4 cylinder daily drivers. But nice try, Al. I wont even dignify this pile of **** with further comment.

 

Oh Al aren't you being narrow minded......I mean hell even the aluminum rod company's tell you 200 runs and throw them away.....That's what 50 miles?Hah!!

Now there is a place for aluminum rods........that's not disputed........But I think something else that has not been mentioned is that a budget set of steel rods prob weighs the same if not lighter than aluminum because of the m*** needed to retain the strength in alum.......and in a street engine ,budget steel will be just fine when clearanced properly.

And JC if a guy knocks 2 sets of eagles out The engines in 2 heat races.....I sorry something else caused it....whether self induced or not.

And yes I use rods that cost anywhere from 350 to 4500 a set ....steel,***anium and aluminum....so I'll put myself in the experienced category.

 

At least theres ONE guy on here that has some clue what hes talking about, rather than just regurgitating ******** he's read in Car Craft...

I know the magazines will tell you all about building 750hp BB's with hyd rollers that dont require any maintenance, this is more "west-coast hollywood romance ********" ( Thats a quote, lets see if anyone knows who it was). If you think your 750 hp bb is gonna go 100,000 miles without maintenance just because you put some cheap-*** chinese made steel rods in it, I have shares in the Brooklyn Bridge available at a discount...

 

If I misunderstood your point I apologize. I wasn't trying to reinterpret your post or push your ****ons. I addressed only what you said. If you meant something different you should have said that instead of what you did say. Some of the examples I posted apparently went over your head. Feel free to ask for clarification.

Insults, condescending remarks, and references to BS and **** don't add any credibility to whatever point you were trying to make.

 

<TABLE style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" id=table162 border=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="57%">The Only Streetable Aluminum Rod

Urban legends abound in the gearhead community. One is: aluminum connecting rods don't work in street engines. Prior to the mid-'70s, that might have been true, however, introduction of the Bill Miller Engineering Forged Aluminum Connecting Rod in 1975 provided an exception to that myth.
The BME Rod has great durability in high-end, high-power, street/strip or hot street engines because it is die-forged, rather than cut out of a plate. Bill Miller Engineering's unique, aluminum alloy further enhances fatigue strength such that the durability of BME Rod rivals that of many forged steel rods and exceeds that of a few.
About 20 years ago, a few resourceful engine builders, led by H-O Racing's, Ken Crocie, began using BME Rods in very-high-performance street engines. Crocie, a racing and street/strip Pontiac V8 spe******t, faced with a shortage of acceptable steel rods for Pontiacs, began to use BME Aluminum Rods. While a few other engine builders followed Crocie's lead, admittedly, use of the Bill MIller Engineering Rod in street engines has not been widespread, but that's only because of its higher cost and the stubborn belief that any aluminum rod is unsuitable for street use.

</TD><TD width="41%"><TABLE style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" id=table163 border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
"In a street application, using the aluminum rod is a no brainer," BME President, Bill Miller, recently said in an interview with an automotive magazine. "I don't know how the myth that aluminum rods can't be used on the street got started, but I'll guess that, back in the 60s and early-70s, they weren't making them using the process we're using, today. With the material we've got and they way we manufacture the connecting rods, they'll live a couple hundred thousand miles on the street because a street application is, for the most part, low load. Our basic Aluminum Rod is made for 10,000 rpm and 800-hp. The design criteria for the connecting rod is way overkill for what it's going see on the street. We been running aluminum rods on the street for 20 years."


And I have done it personally. Hamb, the internet home of hot and cold running ********. Nuff said.

 

No, in fact, you mis-quoted me. Heres how a quote works.

" I've used BME aluminum rods in big hp street/strip motors, my #1 choice. Last longer than the rest of the engine will, and save stress on the rest of the bottom end."

See, thats whats I said. See the quotation marks around it? See how that is lifted straight from my post? Thats a quote. I said EXACTLY what I meant, you mis-quoted it. And no, the examples you gave did NOT go over my head, they are not applicable to what I said. So I will say it again Al, your post is ********. If you want to debate with me, thats fine, and if you treat my comments and opinions with the respect they deserve, then I will treat yours accordingly. On the other hand, if you are going to make "re****als" like the one you made in post #34, I will show them the respect they deserve. Fair enough?

 

Crower, Eagle, ****, and Manley rods are all made offshore. Buy American!

Dyers, Howards, Carrillo, Callies, and Lunati are made here in the USA.

From personal experience, you cannot break a Dyers rod. They'll bend in half before breaking.

 

If we're talking good rods, don't forget Oliver.

 

Exactly. see the last line of post #25, quoted above.

 

I have seen Olivers poking out the side of a sbf, and Callies poking out the side of a BBC. I have also seen big bolt BBC rods poking out of motors. And I have seen aluminum rods poking out the side of motors as well. All that proves is another little known fact, just because any given builder buys lots of nice shiny bucks-up parts, doesnt mean he knows what he's doing. I have laid out the facts for anyone who wants them, at this point, anything further is just a ******* match.

 

The above was taken from your posts in this discussion. You should be proud.

I WAS addressing things you posted, you just don't like what I said.

In spite of all you have posted, your comments are long on ***ertion and thin on fact. Your personal experience is not without significance, but it's not validation. Self-serving claims from the manufacturer do not change anything. While I do agree that it's possible to get by with aluminum rods in some street applications, they are not ok for ordinary use in most situations. Maybe reality, aluminum, or the laws of physics, are different in your universe, but on earth aluminum rods are what they are.

 

there is a good read on rods in the new hot rod mag this month

 

Aluminum rods are great, in light weight race cars.

 

Another thing people dont know about alu rods is that there is a break in whereas after you run them a couple times that they be removed and re-sized because the serations at the split will settle in as they mate. While not a problem in the racing world to tear apart an engine, who wants to tear apart a street motor and go through that after a couple hundred miles.If one did that, the rods would last a long time with even the ocational lead foot.

 

I was looking at the Hot Rod mag article on 6.000" SBC steel rods (latest Dec '12 issue)

And the lightest was a set at 590 grams each and a set at 545 gram rod weight

So going along with Hacks original intent of getting lowest rotating/ recip. weight..how much
would a comparable aluminum rod weigh ...what would be the weight savings??

Also, what would a set of aluminum 6.000" rods cost these days??

 

So you supply an article from either a catalog or an automotive magazine [you didn't credit the source] to attempt to debunk information you say others got out of magazines. I agree that you can't believe everything that you read in a magazine. Usually when something gets a good write up in a magazine, they also have several ads appearing in the same magazine suggesting that they bought the article. Just like the television shows that say you can bolt on an exhaust system, air filter and install a tuner on your vehicle and increase power and mileage.

I can understand the rotating m*** on a circle track engine where you need it to wind up and slow down quickly, but I don't really see the need to do it on a street car other than for bragging rights. Nobody can see the inside of the engine, just tell them you have aluminum rods.

 

Probably not for long

 

Ok, my 2 cents worth. Aluminum rods today aren't what they were 20+ yrs ago. Forged and properly heat treated (cyrogenically) aluminum rods, made from the best alloys ain't cheap. If you build an engine using top shelf aluminum rods and you drive it as many of us do, on weekends/special occasions, It will last a long time. In a blown engine, aluminum rods will give the crank and bearings a little ease. GRP, Childs & Albert, Howards, Milodon, BME, are some of the good ones. If you think you can thrash any kind of rotating ***embly day after day, year after year, without any maintenance, you are delusional. The higher the hp the more maintenance. John Force hopes he can get 5 seconds out of a rotating ***embly. He's counting on shutting it off after about 4.1. IMO it's all about expectations. A good set of rods, any kind should last a long time. Nothing lasts forever. Junk in = junk out

 

read some here you'll like it
http://www.bmeltd.com/rods.htm

 

Could we at least please not use the term "jap?" Aluminum's superiority/inferiority notwithstanding?

 

No "engineman" I base what I say on first hand experience. I posted the article from BME website to debunk Goatropers erroneous comment that aluminum rod manufacturers recommend that you toss aluminum rods after 200 p***es. I have RUN BME rods in 750-800hp n/a street engines, and I have run steel rods, and I have SEEN the differences in bearing wear and main cap brinelling FIRST HAND. So Cutaway Al, and all the other naysayers on here, lets hear it. Have you built a street/strip engine with forged aluminum rods? Simple yes or no will do nicely. Should clear things up pretty quick.

Oh, and I wouldn't run aluminum rods in a circle track engine.

 

Lets not forget the main webs, and more importantly, the caps, as well as the crank and bearings. and they will offer the same benefits on a naturally-aspirated engine that is pushing the limits of what the stock casting/main caps will take as well.

 

Sorry, C-10 simplex, for once, I am in agreement with you. I will edit that post.

 

Yes George I have and do use aluminum rods when I feel application warrants......and I'm glad you and I at least agree about putting them in a circle track engine.


My opinion is that even in a high hp naturally aspirated engine..... I would rather use a steel rod of hp level quality.....


Back the original question that started this mess......why would anyone even consider an alum rod for a 305 street build, when you could buy rods and and light weight pistons for the cost of a good set of alum rods..... and have a bobweight that weights approx the same.

Along with the original question about weight was the mention of friction.....we all have failed to answer this part.....piston and ring package is where the focus should be.this will yield way more gain than a few grams of weight.