First off i have NEVER messed with a Flathead before. So all of this is new to me. Well I have had this 49 flathead in the barn for about 4 years and I have the same good running motor in my shoebox. So for the fun of it and to get to know these motors better I wanted to tear one apart and try to rebuild one myself. Lets see what kind of damage I can do. Here is what I am starting with. I think it is a 1949 8BA. It is stuck. Before I try to get it free I wanted to pull the heads to check and see if there was any visible cracks our anything majorly bad with the block that I can see. My first question is. As you can see one valve is stuck open and I think one is stuck open on the other side. Is this normal? My second question is once I get the other head off and if I see no cracks and I keep on going with this block. Should I just bolt the head back on and fill them up with ****** fluid or what not and let it set a few days to try and get the motor to break loose. Thanks So I started pulling stuff off. When I pulled the intake off I found a nice little stash of corn and grain. Pulled the gasket off and found a nice mice nest. R.I.P. vally shot Got the p*** side head off and I only broke one bolt off.
As the engine turns, valves go up and down. There is never a point where all 16 valves are closed. In other words, when the music stops, not everybody gets a seat. Leave the heads off. Lubricate the cylinder walls with the penetrating oil of your choice, but there's no need to "fill" it with anything. Remove the front pulley, the timing cover, and the timing gears. Put the main crankshaft bolt back in place and try to turn the crank with a 1/2 breaker bar. Get a book (or two), read stuff on the internet. Um, I think your beyond the point of needing to tape the intake runners.
Sometimes cracks don't show up until the block has been hot tanked. I had one that had a crack that didn't show up with magnaflx. It showed up when they ground the exhaust seat. It was repaired for 65 bucks. Soaking may be a waste of time. Use a chunk of hard wood on top of the piston and a BFH. Never give up.
As already stated, you're past the point of just freeing it up, as it should be totally dis***embled. Normally when you find that much mouse nesting in the valley, the oil pan and some cylinders will also have it, along with other critters, past and present!!! ...
Thanks for the replys. My plan on this motor is to tear it all the way down and I am going to buy everything new for the most part. I have a rebuild book already and I have been lurking on here and other sites for as much info I can find but I can always use more. Does any one have any good advice on removing the valves?
Not to be a downer but my experience with stuck flatheads isn't very good. I had one that looked about as rusty as yours, maybe a little rustier. It was on a stand and had the heads off. I filled all the bores up with penetrationg oil....kroil oil if I remember right and every time I'd walk past it, I'd smack all the piston tops with a big hammer on a hunk'o 2X4...for 3 months I did that. All but 2 cylinders began to slowly loose fluid down the cylinder walls and for another 2 months I'd work on those 2 cylinders...even heating them with a mapp-gas torch a few times and re-filling with kroil oil. Finally after 5 months of jerking around, I flipped the engine upside down and grabbed my big truck punch and 3 pound hammer..broke the piston tops out in their middle and finally got the piston [parts] to move. I picked up some of the broken pieces to check and saw my penetrant hadn't even begun to move down through the ring lands..they were totally dry after soaking for 5 long months with hammer blows and heating.. 3 weeks later I got another stuck flatmotor...the very day I got it I broke all the pistons out from underneath and will continue to approach stuck flatheads this way.
You need a valve guide bar. It looks like a crowbar but is basically straight. Has a notch on each end. Pry the the valve guide down with it and remove the horseshoe clip at the top. If that can't be done, pry the valve spring up from the bottom and remove the two keepers from the valve stem. If neither of those work you will probably have to cut the head off the valve or cut the valve stems to get them out.
Well I hope this one turns out better then that one. If not this motor was a freebe. Thanks for the info. I am getting one of those valve bars already.
1. I've heard water is the best thing to put in the cylinders. No joke look it up here on the HAMB. 2. Let me know when you get to the valves. I have the tools to make it... well... as easy as it's going to be. A valve bar isn't going to help much in the way of getting them out.
Thanks for the info Kevin and I will get with you on the tools when I get to the valves. That will save me some $$. I really appreciate it. Mike
"Um, I think your beyond the point of needing to tape the intake runners. " I think you are right<!-- / message -->
I broke the same head bolt taking the heads off of mine, I am here looking for a way to remove it... ugh already broke a #3 ez-out
What # 7 and # 8 said,....All the valve pieces are readily available from Joblot and / or Speedway. Then take the block to a reputable machine shop for clean up, and inspection. It IS worth the cost to have this done. I located a machine shop by asking the antique car guys where they take their engines. Take the crank along, so they can p*** judgement on it as well. About breaking out the pistons,.I use an inpact driver,...and carefully avoid the cylinder walls. Noisey, but it works. 4TTRUK
First, separate your stuckness into valve and piston stuff by simply removing 4 bolts and the cam drive gear. Now you have 2 separate problems to attack...if you can, drive wedges under valves, tap up lifters with motor upside down, and yank cam to ease the topside festival. Second...you may have noticed by now that you are not going to be saving the pistons and that they are likely VERY stuck...so get chisels, holesaws, etc. and figure out a way to destroy center areas of each and then gently pry/chisel out piston walls and rings. You want to employ strategy here more than shock, as it is possible to have a chunk of piston take a chunk of block out with it when you go in with your mightiest hammer!
Removing the broken head-bolt is usually just a matter of welding a washer to the broken bolt, then weld a nut to the top of the washer. Worked every time I've ever tried it. Here's a link with some pics. http://www.modeltengine.com/brokenheadstud.htm As for getting those pistons and valves out...it can be a battle royal especially after that mouse pee has had years to corrode stuff. Just a matter of time and patience and following Bruce's advice and you'll have it.
Actually, It's supposed to be flush when you do this. If it's not you should grind it down flush before starting. Try it now that it's flush and you'll get it.
Following this one. Got a flatty waiting for a rebuild too, minus the rats nest thank God! Good luck with the motor.
OK well I got the other head off last night and BAM! I was hit with this. I am sure someone will let me know forsure if this can be fixed. One of the valve areas on this side looks REAL bad and it looks like the valves are rusted in thier pretty damn good. Not sure if a machine shop could fix this our not? Also we miked one of the cylinders and it looks liked it has already been bored out 30 or 40 over already. So not sure if I should keep on with this block??? Hit me with the bad news. I can take it!! YUMMY!!!
Depending how deep it is, I've had great success with MIG welding a shock washer to the top of a broken stud. I then attach a large vice grip to the outside of the washer. This helps to give you some extra torque when turning it. The trick is to also turn it as soon as it turns from orange to grey. The heat caused from the weld helps to free the stud. I've removed approx. 10 broken studs using this method. In the future, another trick I've learned is to first tighten the stud ever so slightly before trying to back it out. From what I read, when the stud goes forward it creates less stress than coming out. That slight turn breaks the bond and helps the stud to back out. I've also heated the studs with a torch and doused them with a 50/50 mix of acetone and ATF. The red hot stud wicks the fluid down into the threads. This has worked like a charm for me. Do it in a well ventilated area for the heat does cause it catch fire.
Not sure why you'd want to even mess with trying to get those valves out nicely. Red wrench those ****ers. They are junk anyway. By torching them in half, it is a lot easier to use "normal" tools to get them out. Sometimes you can't finese these old lazy eights. Brute force is what is needed to free them up.
Have you rolled it over and looked at the bottom yet? Here in Idaho most of the throw away blocks are from water in the bottom of the engine freezing in the winter and splitting the block in the crank area. Amazing how many farmers left the cars and trucks out by the field with their kids leaving the hood open after playing in the dead cars so the rain bird sprinkler can fill the block with water. It freezes and splits the crank web from the ice expansion. I've had several blocks split this way. I've learned to pull the pan and look at the bottom before bothering to get the heads off.
No I have not turned it over yet. Sense I am this far and have the heads off already I would like to know if the valve area that is all corroded can be saved before I go any further. But thanks for the advice.
It doesn't look detrimental yet. At least not according to the responses I got on this one last year... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=641652
it is pretty rough but i wouldn't give up until i see the bottom end. at the worse it might have some good parts. as i'm looking at this i see moer reason why to never pay much for a stuck engine and why to always look inside an engine that has sat up for years even if it will turn over.
Yeah, if the seller won't or can't take off the pan, I either p*** or never pay more than $50.00. I've been extremely lucky in the world of flatheads for all four of my blocks turned out to be standard bore and crack free. Certainly the flathead gods were smiling on me.
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