Hi Guys, there is so much knowledge about flatheads on this site that I'm taking a chance that some of you can help me out. I want to build a strong flathead and don't know enough about them to put a package together. Has anyone built a fresh flattie recently that can advise me on the basic components I should be looking for....eg, crank, pistons, heads, intake etc. Is there any advantage in starting with a new French block ?? Any advice and direction would be very much appreciated. I know Mike at H&H can build an awesome engine ( and he most likely will build mine ) but I reckon some of you guys out there are just as switched on. Thanks
Doing a search here is a very good tool in finding all the tricks. You may have to experiment with keywords to get the most of it, but worth the time in the end. I suggest the search because there are so many set ups available for these engines. Also, just because one person likes it one way, it may not work for what you want to accomplosh, with the search, you will see a lot more info and opinions.
State what you want so you get the best help. Tough as nails average hp?? Daily driver? Level of streetability??? try reading here. http://www.midstateantiquestockcarclub.com/flat_heads1.html Home page: http://midstateantiquestockcarclub.com/index.html
I suggest you look for help on the Fordbarn site (www.fordbarn.com) click on the Early Ford V8 Forum 32-53. Some very knowledgeable flathead folks over there . Same format as the HAMB.
Thanks Austin....I wanna tough streeter. I wanna build a blown flathead. A Scot blower with a real old school look. I dont just know anywhere enough technically to get the components right.....lots of opinions from the professionals but I'm wanting info from the guys that drive these things. Sam
First thing to remember is that Flatheads are torquey engines and torque gets you down the track. A factory fresh 1953 255 cubic inch Mercury Flathead engine had just about as much torque as a 1980 corvette. On a blown Flathead you want to keep compression as low as possible even with finned heads - Offenhouser 425 heads are a****st the lowest compression finned units in a decent price range. Baron may offer less compression but much more $$. Roadrunner engineering can supply parts, advice or a complete blower kit (including intake and pulleys in your choice of boost). Talk to Joe Abbin and he will point you in the right direction. http://www.roadrunnerengineering.com/ Flathead camshafts have not changed much in the last 60 years. Isky 400jr or Max1 will really smarten things up especially with a blower. 4" stroke Crankshaft is available from ****. -Get the complete kit which will be balanced as an ***embly. Pistons rods rings bearings crank included. If you opt for just the crank and search for pistons and rods expect to pay your machinist 6 or more hours to balance your stroker/**** crank to your pistons/rods. That machine shop time could very well cost you 4 or $500 just for balancing hence you would be wise to buy the **** kit pre balanced. Although **** can supply 4 1/8 or 4 1/4 strokes they are not the way to go when supercharging a Flathead. More stroke = more piston speed and your blown Flathead will rev up Very fast once you have the blower working, that is to say it will be very easy to rev the old girl and adding more stroke will just increase the speed/travel of the pistons into un-necessary zones. Timing will be an issue on any blown engine. -with the more pulley (boost) you put into it, the more detonation wants to set in. Talk to Joe Abbin. With Offy 425 heads and a 4" **** crank you will want to have Joe make you some pulleys in the 5 to 7 pound/boost range. Everybody is familiar with an MSD 6AL ignition system. That is to say that MSD makes a Multi Spark Discharge version 6 with Auto rev Limiter built in = MSD 6AL. For blown engines an upgrade of the 6AL is available in the MSD 6BTM which is all the above with the addition of a Boost Timing Module (BTM). https://www.msdignition.com/Product...*og/6462_-_MSD_6-BTM_Boost_Timing_Master.aspx What the 6BTM does is allows you to pull up to 3 degrees of timing out per pound of blower boost (to a maximum of 15 degrees) as your engine rpm rises. This controls detonation and detonation kills engines fast. Theoretically, the Flatheads normal advance at idle is 2 or 4 degrees (al***ude dependent) and around ~26 degrees at rpm. If your blower adds 5 pounds boost and the 6BTM pulls out 3 degrees of boost per pound at rpm you will be able to pull up to 15 degrees out at part and wide open throttle: (26 - 15 = 9 degrees advance at rpm).. -A good starting point for total advance/rpm is about 15 degrees or so and work from there. Again, This will control deadly detonation. Start low and work your way up, running to little advance is far better for your blown engine than over doing it from the get go. The 6BTM allows for either plug in rev limiter chips or do what I did and opt for the under dash dial which allows me to set the rev limiter from 4400 to 6400 at the turn of the dial. http://www.proracestore.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=10304 The dial looks similiar to this: Again, Contact Joe Abbin at Road Runner Engineering, he is a friendly guy and he can set you up with many parts as well as great tech. Oh, don't forget to grab Joe's excellent book regarding streetable Flathead horse power. He builds and dynos several engine combinations while fully illustrating every step in the book.... George McNicholl also has an excellent performance book out where he goes through 3 different build ups. Both books are highly recommended. . Here's Joe working on a friends 335 hp Flathead... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8x47lRNslc&feature=share&list=ULU8x47lRNslc .
Thanks Moefuzz, great starting point for me...I'll digest some of this info and come back. I really didnt expect people to give me so much of their time. Cheers
I gotta go with moefuzz on here, not to discredit H&H and maybe I'm partial since he's a freind but I've had good luck with Joe Abbin, talk to him awhile and you realise he's and engineer that has spent a lot of time trying combos and testing them both on the dyno and the road.
Geo. McNicholl did a super job....I went with a lot of his references and ideas with my 8BA build, and it's all good. He put me on to the correct NGK plugs to use, in place of the H10 "short reach ones on my Offfy 400 heads. 4TTRUK
Their is no way I would trust the **** balanced claim. Bought one of their ***emblies and one of the rods had never been finish honed on either the big or small end. Quality? I don't think so.
Advantage of French Flathead is it probably won't be cracked can't say the same about used flatheads.
Excellent call, have the components balanced by the engine builder! To answer the OP, first, I would recommend the Eagle crank, balances up easier than the ****, second, I would recommend **** rods, easiest to "fit" with any stroke 4.000" or greater, and lastly, I would recommend ONLY some Ross pistons with the metric ring pack! This is the best all around combo we've worked on for both blown and N/A builds! It's the only pieces we stock at all times! (Add) One other "tip", have the guides bronze lined, you'll never have another valve "hang" during long periods of non-use. Thanks, Gary in N.Y. P.S. With respect to heads, Edelbrock's 1116's, they usually end up at 78 cc's when installed! We also "pin" these now to the blocks like the SBC's to keep the heads AND gaskets from "moving" around! Works excellent!
Thanks Gary.....i kinda new about the Ross pistons. My biggest question was pretty much about the heads....Are the Navarro heads no good?? Or they just overrated ??
Just did a 4" ****.Complete rotating ***embly. Checked balance and was way off 30+ grams . Only checked balance as many have complained in the past have read it in more than one post.(there was no balance sheet with the ***y only rod weights on box) Had to weigh everything first. .. Talked to **** and they were very reluctant to e mail their copy of the balance sheet to confirm numbers it took 3 phone calls to get info.They kept insisting it was balanced and don't be concerned.I then discovered the rods weren't de maged and they picked up iron filings like a magnet easy to de mag but some novice will take this stuff out of the box and use it unknowingly.Using their numbers balance was off.My bob weights were the same as theirs (their balance was off). My2¢ T
more reading - Tex Smith's The Complete Ford Flathead V8 Engine Manual. guess you have deep pockets for the type of engine you are planning to have built - don't forget cooling, type of trans, rearend, etc.
this threads getting kept! Thanks for all the input guys. Yall just saved me a lot of searching. @ hardtop57 keep us posted on your build
Will do Fastrnu...just trying to secure the french block as we speak. I agree this thread is a keeper....there are some real switched on dudes on this forum. Good job lads.
Over the past three or four years I've collected all of the above suggested flathead books and a couple more that weren't suggested. Each one contributes to one's knowledge of working on and with a flathead. The Tex Smith book is easy to read and comprehend as is everything that Tex writes. It has a lot of info on identifying flathead pieces. The Joe Abbin and George McNichol books are more aimed for someone who has built a number of engines but both are excellent books to have. The Ron Bishop book is again a more basic rebuild your engine book. I'd say choose the one that fits your needs the most and buy it and then do your homework the same as you should do research on anything that you set out to do. Flatheads aren't really the least bit exotic, they just take a few different steps than we are used to when working on overhead valve engines. 60 years ago high school kids were routinely modifying them in their back yards or garages without giving it a second thought. Now they seem to be some sort of exotic engines that we have to go sit at the feet of flathead gurus to understand.
A ps; to my earlier post; if using Offy "400" heads, and possibly others, the correct 1/2" reach plug is NGK B5HS,..they're the same heat range as H10, and exactly "fill" the spark plug holes. 4TTRUK
New Stage 2 bare block secured from San Francisco Flatheads...the start of the Flathead project. I think I'll send it to Joe Abbin in New Mexico.....thanks again Moefuzz
Just chiming in. I've met Joe personally (I live here) and purchased his books. His latest book goes into great detail with dyno proven recipes for whatever you want to make. One more vote for Joe.
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