Good point Edsel.fi. And I may come to hate this big old wagon with manual steering - but at least this way its safe to drive, and I will have everything there if I ever decide to put it back as stock. The adapter arrived yesterday (that was FAST) and looks like its going to fit just fine. Am going to get it installed this morning and will report back later.
Well, If your edsel was originally power asssisted, how safe is to drive, when try to turn car fast enough on tight situations!?
Edsel.fi - I understand your concerns. And after driving it a bit after getting the adapter put on - I agree with you. Its safer than it was for sure - however - I think this solution would be ideal on something other than a wagon. However - I did get more familiar with the steering system on this car. While trying to get the control valve off - (by pounding on the stud through the Pittman arm - ) my hammer slipped - hit the control valve - and that, as they say, is that (see pic). You can see where the old ball stud was destroying the casing of the control arm just from driving. The fact that the whole thing came apart with one miss aimed whack of a hammer really points out how close this thing was to coming apart while driving. Lesson learned! I went to take off the control valve - and well - lets say that was an adventure. We may not have a lot of rust in this part of the country - but those control valves are THREADED on to the drag link. The water gets in there and it becomes a bit of a challenge! I then had to use some pretty powerful pliers to get the control valve off the drag link which scraped the casing. I'm not too worried about the aesthetics of this unit as I have another. Between the two I should be able to make one. Also I snapped a pic of the ball stud still stuck to the Pittman arm. It came out after about 10 more sideways whacks. I was running late for a family dinner so did not manage to get a pic of the new adapter in place. But I did get to drive it down the street and back. Its better. Slop is majorly reduced - but not eliminated. I do have a full front end rebuild kit I ordered from Kantor in the back seat. That is probably going to be the next project. Is it impossible to drive this way? No - but it isn't pleasant. I can see where the added ratio helps in a manual steering situation. This solution probably would be fine if it was in a sedan / hardtop / convertible. Not in a wagon. So the next projects will be to try to track down the PS hoses - the right ones, and rebuild the slave cylinder and my spare control valve. For those who have rebuilt their units - where did you get the hoses? So far Mac's Auto has them all but one. Another company down here told me they can rebuild the hoses if I had the fittings. I can find the hoses that go from the control valve to the slave cylinder - and the return line - but not the feeder from the pump TO the control valve. Hoses are all I'm missing. I did find out the hose sizes changed in 1960 and all my equipment is 59 Ford at this point. Thoughts?
That looks to be Bendix unit, I found that Rare Parts in Stockton Ca has those, I worked on a 47 Caddy that someone put that into, and its a little tight, I got hose ends from NAPA had them install on one end of hose and then used a reusable fitting to finish the other end after in stalling.
Hoses what I used: return hose: from Obsolete & Classis autoparts, B5AZ-3A713-C, 23,95 USD 2x from control cylinder to control valve: from Mac`S antique autoparts : CV-8640, 25,95 us / each Obsolete & Classis autoparts sells also: B7A-3A714-A 29.95 / EACH . Pressure hose, pump to valve: 1964 galaxie pressure hose (390 CI eng) was used, pump fitting was okay, to valve end my hydraulic guy attached angled piece of old hose remains, which were still in old valve. Obsolete & Classis autoparts, sell now also Pow str pressure line ,for 57-58 ford, but that is meat for 6 cylinder???? My pow str setup was from 59 edsel, now it`s in my 58 pacer convertible.
here is picture of that used control valve, about 90 degree bent was in pressure side hose. Notice one control valve <> cylinder hose was replaced with solid steel hose ! & weird coupling on return hose.
Thanks for the pics and info. That hose from the pump to the valve is what I am missing, and I can not find it anywhere (yet). Those pics help out a lot. I have an old 1965 Motors Manual that covers the Edsel and it has some good info in it but is lacking in pictures. I also have the hose insulator I just didn't know where it went. I've learned a lot in researching the PS setup. It actually looks pretty simple in theory and should not be too much of a problem. I may send the control valve off to be rebuilt along with the slave cylinder - its pricey but - then I wouldn't have to worry. Or I may try rebuilding them myself. Haven't decided. But - the car will be off the road until this is done - it's just too much to drive the wagon with a reduced steering ratio. I may not always make the best decisions - and I'm not afraid to post about them either. This way someone may read what I've done and learn from what I've done wrong.
Yep, that pressure hose from pump to valve, is not available from any sellers, i believe. I thought should I order seal kit for cylinder or buy new replacement cylinder.. Well, I ordered new power cylinder from macs, to make it shure, weakest link is my own rebuild control valve. I quess it cost about 1000 bucks to convert manuel steering to power assisted ! worth every euros or dollars, so much nicer to cruise with my edsel ! Still I hate that manual overdrive transmission !
macs do have rebuilding service for control valves, price 296 USD + / - also rockauto.com have that service, price is only 95 us ! and rockauto offers cylinder service for 126 us only ! new cylinder (1958) cost @ macs 249.95 us , including bushings.
I sent the control valve to Straight line steering in San Jose Ca and they dialed it in for around 250 $
Two steps forward.... Well - as some of you in the SW will know - it was cold last night. REAL cold. For Arizona - it was down right fridgid. Our Low this morning was 9. Not 19, not 29, but 9. For Arizona - this is not normal. Well - we weathered the cold - water stayed running in the house - well made it through - so did everything else. Went out to run some errands today and came back to the picture bellow. Crap. Maybe I didn't have the mix right. I know I've had to refill the water a few times in the last year. I just didn't think about it. For those of you who have NOT yet felt the wrath of winter in Az --- take care of your antifreeze. Hopefully its a freeze plug or a hose --- the leak is "near the back" of the engine so I am hopeful.
thats how my engine rebuild started. A freeze plug right behind the passenger motor mount was leaking. I pulled the motor to get to it, then decided to check the bearings and rings. Next thing I know the block is at the machine shop, and Im still cleaning parts for the rtebuild.
I hear ya Greg! Looks like that may end up happening here. As I've been futzing with the steering I kept thinking it would be easier in a garage...at least in a garage and not my carport. So I may trailer the Edsel up to Tucson to my mom's garage (she has a 6 car garage). There I can work on it in a garage with some of the bigger tools available - hoist - etc. Parts stores are also closer in Tucson than down here. If it does turn out to be more than a freeze plug at least then it will be in a nice dry relatively warmer garage. The engine did turn over and run yesterday just after I took the pic - but it sounded like the water pump was stuck (screaming belt). Dunno if that was from ice or damage - too cold to check. We warm up later this week so I'll pop the hood and look then. It could have just been a hose that went. I doubt it from the location of the water though.....
they magnafluxed my block and said it was OK. But the freeze plug was pushed out against the motor mount. At least their, its gonna warm up. The cold that hit you is now here.LOL
Hey All! Well - a quick update. Since the weather warmed up finally today I got out to the carport and took a look under the Edsel. I found one of the Freeze plugs. Interesting to me it had a bronze-ish hue to it and looked fairly new. The blue paint did not show any black underneath. Either the engine was rebuilt at one point, or the engine was changed out with a later engine. The engine still turns over and runs, but holds no coolant. I have a huge leak on the drivers side - and the passenger side is leaking but I cannot find a second popped plug. It may have partially popped or worse yet - I may have a cracked block. I looked all over the intake for the standard 62 and later casting marks and could not find any - just a blurry set of numbers - and the standard firing order marks. I've been doing a lot of thinking, and have come to the conclusion based on the fact that the engine was grimy inside the valve covers, and since I'm going to have to raise the engine to get the new plugs in that I might as well pull the engine for a rebuild. I have some funds coming in soon and probably late spring will begin the project. Since I'm pulling the engine - I might as well pull the transmission ---- you see where this is going....right.... With that said I did some research and found I have a lot of options. A rebuild of the stock 332 may be expensive as any kits I've found are a tad high. I could convert the 332 to a larger displacement. Or I could locate a later 390 and build something more impressive. With that all being said - right now the Edsel is on hold. I'll tow it to Tucson sometime soon so I can work on it in a covered garage - and I'll probably get a little deeper into this than I intend. With the steering as another project that will need to be completed I can see it may be quite a while before this car is back on the road.
bad times!!! You know, thats exactly what I have done. I have $1000.00 in the new cam, bearings, rings, and machine work on the block. I dont have a total on the trans, and I just ordered a radiator, $480.00. Yes, it ads up quick, but when Im finished, it will be good enough to drive out and visit you. Except for 9 mpg. check my post, the engine is going together now.
Hey Greg - checked the progress on your freshening up! Looks like its coming along nicely. I see that you're having the trans rebuilt. Which trans do you have an how much are they charging. I keep flipping - one day to the next - as to what I want to do. The more I read - the more options present itself. "Well if the bore is the same on the 332 and 390 - well - then why not go 390 with the stock. If Im going 390 don't I want a newer block - this one might have issues anyway. If I'm going 390 - why not 410.....or it would be easy to just order a 390 long block......or I could just freshen up the 332...." and on and on. The FE does give choices thats for sure. Anyone have experience in rebuilding a stock 2 speed Ford transmission? Are they prone to failure? Anything to look for when I do get into this?
Im thinking a donor 390 and trans would be the less expensive route. I have never did a complete rebuild on any of my other cars, and wanted to do one. I believe the bore of a 332 is smaller than the 390. my 361, and a 390 are 4.050 bore. The trans guy gave me a estimate, but you know how they go. I figure the trans i had lasted for 75k mile, and it was still ok. I will probably kick myself for not going overdrive.
Left Coast Rod & Custom - thanks - she is a great car! She has some mechanical issues for sure - but cosmetically she looks pretty good! Sorry - you are correct there Greg - 332 is a 4" bore and 3.3" stroke - the 352 has the 3.5" stroke. 4.05 bore on 361 and 390. The only three other rebuilds I did were a 29 Model A back in 1992 when I was 14, a 1916 Model T when I was 16, and a 1978 VW Bus about 7 years ago. All are way different than a standard Detroit V8. They all do have pistons, rings, and a camshaft though. I may just get a replacement 390 and transfer all the parts I can off the 332 to make it look period correct. Definitely go with a 4v engine through - 2v ain't enough. I'll also change my mind 50 times before I get to that point!
So today the weather was nice and warm - first warm weekend in an age - and after a ton of other chores, I decided to check out the engine. Started it up again for a few seconds for good measure. Then jacked the passenger side up. The pic is what I found. So - no sign of the freeze plug - drivers side I found. So - it could be it blew away in the wind last weekend. Laugh - but here in Palominas we get some wicked winds! So it looks like the front two freeze plugs were popped out. Should I try to re-install the plugs with the engine in the car and just press on for now - or go ahead with an engine swap? So many decisions.
Pop new ones in, if you can reach them easily, or with little trouble. It's not hard. You can even buy rubber ones that expand by tightening a nut/bolt.
That must have been one hard freeze. So much for Arizona being hot all the time. Doing a rebuild gets a little pricey. as I am currently finding out. If it was running ok before, I would put them back in and just make sure everything else is ok first. You could have a crack somewhere else that wont show up until it gets hot. Mine on the passenger side was pushed out, but it was the one behind the motor mount, so it couldnt come all the way out.
So after getting frustrated with the new Mercury I tackled the freeze plug issue with the Edsel. I went to Napa yesterday and picked up some of those temporary rubber freeze plugs. I picked up four, just in case and headed home. Today around noon I tackled the Edsel. I found that three of the larger freeze plugs have been pushed out. I also confirmed at come point the whole engine was at least out of the car if not rebuilt / worked on. The whole thing is ford blue - and its not OLD paint either. Anyway I pulled the starter to get at the last one and buttoned it up and prayed for the best. No leaks! How long will this hold - dunno - but it at least got me a good 30 mile Easter Sunday road trip out of it! Polished her up and picked up some wine and ice from the Canyon General in Hereford. Made beer this afternoon - all is well.
Hey All!~ So since the weather has been beautiful out I decided to take the Edsel to work today. Drove great. Now that a lot of mechanical issues are taken care of, the car drives a lot better. The steering adapter does work - and the steering is MUCH better than the broken power steering setup. I still plan on fixing the original system and getting it put back. For now though, its a LOT safer. Still running rich and need to get to that at some point. Anyway on the way home I took a video of what it's like to drive this beast. I got it up to about 70 or so in the video. Speedo no worky - just an estimate on speed. She cruises MUCH better at 60-65 - but just wanted to show what it was like. Sorry for the blurriness I think the camera was focusing on the steering wheel. I also called Hwy 92 - 91. Eh - no one is perfect. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGaQhW23bxY
PTO - Going well - took a drive in to Bisbee TWICE on Sunday. Total run of 80 miles or so. Was awesome. The more I drive it - the more "issues" fix themselves. The seals in the transmission are working better - and its probably time for a fluid flush. Overall MUCH happier. There are a lot of little things left to do: Hook headlights back up Correct wiring for front parking lights. Replace turn signal switch Finish installation of all interior trim Hook heater up Speedo Repair etc. Based on that - I may take it to the Bisbee Car Show this year. I was going to be occupied that weekend - but my schedule cleared up yesterday. I wont finish all items - but I'll probably be there. I MAY be the only Edsel - if not - I bed I'll be the only 59 - if not - I'll be the only 59 Wagon. LOL Process of Elimination! If another 59 Wagon shows up - I bed I'm the only one with "custom" interior in this style!
The Jalopy Journal
