Im throwing this out there for all you metal gurus here on the hamb to see how far off or not I am as far as time on a repair goes. I have a guy who asked me to look at a rotted trunk on a mopar he has. Its a 60 something I think and the trunk floor is toast! Its basically the whole center portion of the trunk.He asked me if I could repair it and what it would take. I told him I could have it back to him in about two days using a re-pop he would supply. He then told me "whats that gonna cost a couple hundred?".....Ahhhh? Skilled labor rate... Check.... roughly two days time... Check. A guy that needs ME to do something for THEM and expects it perfect, wants it turned around yesterday, and then pay me close to minimum wage for CA for my efforts....? You gotta love people Maybe I should tell him I have no idea what the hell I'm doing but, if he would let me try out some of my new metal cutting tools on his car, I would love to experiment and see what happens. .... and then add that if everything doesn't work out like HE planned, that I'm grate with bondo and can spread that **** 1" thick so not to worry! Thats the end of my rant but seriously... I think I could nock it out a bit faster than that but I figured a weekend sat and have it back sunday... am I off.. or?
If you feel you're giving him an honest quote then you're not off. Don't undersell yourself. If he can find someone else to do it cheaper just say "Bye". Two of the most talented guys I've know, my dad who could diagnose and fix anything on a car and a friend who was an old time body man who also could do just about anything, were too of the worse businessmen I knew. They both would under price the other shops in the area. They had more business than they could handle, working 10-12 hour days, but never had money in their pockets. Meanwhile the guys down the street also had a full lot, had the fanciest buildings and nicest vehicles and also had they doors and lights out after 6:00. I run my own business, non auto related. The thing that amazes me is my customers are in the same industry as I am in. They know what it takes to do my job and the cost of parts. Something most of the public doesn't know with the auto repair industry. Even though my customers know what I go through they are always trying to chisel me down on price and wait until the very last minute before they need me to complete their jobs. I learned a lot from my dad and the old body shop guy. I never under price a job. I'd rather sit at the computer for a day than buy a job. It's happened more than a few times that a customer who thought I was too expensive and went to a cheaper compe***or has come back to me on the next job because the cheaper guy screwed the job he did. A few times I was called in to fix projects a cheaper guy screwed up. Remember this:
So what is the charge for the job? Labor and materials but not including his supplied floor pan. Posted from the TJJ App for iPhone & iPad
If you're a business owner, you can't allow yourself to get all worked up because a customer underestimates the value of your work. Some guys know what things costs, others don't.
I don't know what your hourly rate is, but $200 sounds cheap to me, especially if you have to make it perfect for paint and then paint it.
You have to stop taking this stuff personally, or it will drive you nuts. Work out your business formula so you can make a profit and stick with it. People are getting their heads filled with a whole lot of reality show negotiating nonsense lately. But, what they really want is a reasonable deal on a quality job, done when they were told it would be for the price quoted. You will lose some jobs, some will learn and come back, and some will get on the HAMB and whine.
Im not going to do any job if the guy does not want to pay the price thats for sure. I have learned to not underbid jobs and would much rather work on my own project car and wait for a job that pays than pay for or make no money at all on any job. I think it just got under my skin a little because he is one of those guys that would get something for nothing but now that its his its worth a million dollars.... we all know someone like that. The first guy to talk **** about something but if you gave it to him its the greatest thing since sliced bread. Needless to say I will not work for him or anyone that ****s if I can help it. I have only been at it a few years now and have worked for some really cool guys and a few not so good ones. Next time I see him ill just tell him to get a cheap welder and some flux core and have at it. No he would be looking at around 400 out the door. Maybe a bit less if things went smooth and he was cool but not 200 thats to cheap for me but maybe someone would be willing to do it for that.... not me. Thanks guys -Dane
Lets add up the labor, 2 days = 16 hrs. At $100 an hour, I think that comes to $1600. Now paint time would only be about 6 hours and about $100 for material. That comes to about $2300 to $2500 rounded off. Not an unfair price if done in a professional shop. Maybe he just wants it installed over the old one for extra strength. I could do that for $200 and the cost of a cheap paint brush. In truth, even the $2500 job would not be enough for a 100 point car.
I learned a long time ago never give any estimate until you see the "trunk floor" they provide. I did a 57 Chevy with a floor from Danchuck (?) it was just like the factory part. did a partial floor ina 64 Impala, another good trunk floor was purchased. easy squeezy. gave a guy a price on a 52 Chevrolet floors and trunk and some other rusty bits and what he brought over was 2 pieces of flat sheetmetal with some very weak beads rolled in it. nothing at all like what was necessary to do a proper repair. these are still being sold on ebay and through Chevs of the 40's. total garbage. I had already started with the front floors and had the car at my shop all torn up when he brought those over. with 20/20 hindsight I should have gave him a new price reflecting the fact that he didn't bring me a trunk floor, but I didn't. made about $8.00 an hour on that job.
I used to be in the electrical business and everyone wanted things done for free. Plus sometimes they wanted me to use improper materials or used materials they had scavenged. I was once told by a man that was pretty smart, "Don't sell yourself short, dont apologize for your price. The customer either cant do it or they dont want to do it". Give a fair price but keep in mind its not always as easy as it may look. If you feel its a fair price go for it. If it ends up not worth it you have learnt a lesson.Good luck.
I can understand your frustration with this guy. People tell you not to let it get to you, which I agree, but it still is frustrating dealing with customers who try to chisel you down on prices. I learned early in my business life not to buy jobs. It seams like all it takes is to give a customer a break on price once and they'll expect you to give them that price every time. I tried to help out a couple of customers when they came to me with sob stories about their salesmen not putting enough in the quote for their machine. Since I did a few projects for them I helped them out with by cutting my shop rate for these jobs. A few jobs down the road they had another job almost identical to the cut rate one and expected me to do the second job for the same cost. I had to firmly remind them that I cut my rate to help them out that one time. In my business I also learned real quick not to give a firm quote for installations. I will give a "Not to exceed" price with a warning that if it looks like it's going to cost more I will give them notice before going over the price. If a customer insists on a firm quote I'll figure out what I think it would cost and double the price. I've been on too many installations that are way different than what was originally proposed to me when I first met with the customer to discuss his project.
HAHA! Not quite that bad... Thats good stuff. I fixed a hood once that could have come off the car in the picture... that guy ended up being a "discount" customer as well... Yeah I don't have a professional shop so I'm less than 40hr rite now but hell, I still enjoy it and I'm not starving yet.... plus I don't have a lot of overhead.... just a lack of space so its one car at a time and my **** sits outside. When the time comes I will move into a small shop but till then I will just weed out the cheap *****s and try to stick with the customers that are stoked to get a good job at a more than fair price. I also learned to steer clear of hard quotes unless I can see the job in bare metal.... Damn filler HAHA.
rember abrasives, welding consumables, gas wire feed, and any other parts that get used up and they do cost a lot to give them away i restored boats and threw all the sandpaper in a box and counted it all up at least i got paid for that it usually seems like doubling the estimate puts you close to the owrk you put in the 400 should cover most unless you get any surprises
Some shops take in work just to undercut everyone in an attempt to keep their doors open. In the machine shop I work at there's always someone willing to do a $38 part for $18... and when they **** it up, the customer is very glad to pay us the $38. Bob
Gimpyshotrods, Not to desrecept you, or anyone else, but if all you do is $40/hr work, that is all you will be known for, and that is all you will ever get! It is better to have 2 customers at $75/hr, than 3 at $40/hr. The $75/hr customer will tell his friends about your good work. The $40/hr customer will tell his friends about where they can get cheap work. Ps, The majority of the shops profit comes from parts sales. If you let your customer supply his own parts, you not only lose your profit, you have to work harder to make his cheap parts fit.
One way to raise your shop rate/hr is to select one estimate that you realy don't want to do , and quote it at a much higher rate. If you get the job, you will be able to do to a high quality standard and you won't mind doing it, and more importantly, you will note that there are people that will pay your higher rate. "Never quote a cheap rate, you will be telling people what you think your work is realy worth."
My point was, if we charged that little, we could not afford keep the doors open. Here, the going rate is $100/hr.
ok your doing it part time, so you go cheap @ $25 hour but remember about welding wire, grinding disc, electricity, primer paint, and that when you get the car 2 hours of bs time with the customer and another 2hours of bs time on the way out and i see the gas tank is gone what about that?? and making the fuel sender work???
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