Andy is right about flushing out the freeze plug openings. Remove the freeze plugs and I guarantee you that you will find crud piled behind the bottom row of plugs. Clamp off the bottom radiator hose, put a garden hose with a pressure nozzel in the thermostat opening in the head and start flushing from the top to the bottom. Use a stiff wire or long thin brush in the bottom holes to break stuff loose. Then move to the top freeze plug holes and start flushing from there. Keep going until you are getting just clear water. As for the distribution tube, I had a long slim piece of flat stock about 3 feet long that I drove down first one side then the other of the tube. Sprayed so much PB Blaster in there that I should own stock in the company now and let it set. Kept spraying over a couple of days. Then I took a pair of vise grips and grabbed the exposed end of the tube, put a piece of paint stir stick on the face of the block to use as a pry point and started prying it out. When it moved a bit I would get a new grip and go at it again. Didn't care if I smashed it or even tore pieces off because I already had a replacement waiting to go in. Took a bit of work but it came out.
Tom, you have a 1951 Plymouth 217.8 cubic inch tower of power there.......lol.......3.250 bore but smaller stroke than the 230.....andyd
Thank you so much,now I need to find some one that will sell me 1 con-rod for this motor. Also I heard some where that the 218 motor has longer con-rods than the 230,is that true?
If the water tube is shot the coolant will stream straight up the front of the engine and not circulate to the back. The back of the engine will be hot while the front is cool. I have pulled out the tube with a coat hanger wire bent into a hook. Make more than one, hook into 3 or 4 holes, grab them with a vice grip and pull or pry out. You don't have to to this unless the tube is rusted out and the back of the engine is running hot. The tube will last at least 10 or 20 years, longer if you use antifreeze or water pump lube or if you have the br*** or stainless tube.
The tubes major function is to distribute coolant tot he underside of the valves seats in an even manner so that they are evenly cooled. They can be a A#1 ***** to remove. Over the years many a mopar prac***ioner has developed and garage engineered many different styles of removal tool from bent and sharpened rod to a home made slim jim. Even seen folks resort to standing the block on end and using a come along, chainfalls to yank the ****er out. one even fabed a toll and attached his slide hammer to effect a removal. You will note on the new one that the holes get larger as the tube tapers to the rear. Same principle as the long run heating ducts that get smaller in diameter as the run extends. You need to make a tool that will reach back far enough to get lodged in a solid hole. You migh also take a long screw driver and hammer it into the casting to collapse the side of the tube away from the walls.
Chris, as far as I am aware the Fenton headers, repop or original should not foul the fuel pump as they were made to fit as an alternative to the original stock cast iron manifold and all references, pics etc that I have seen have never mentioned having to remove the fuel pump.............BUT if your car is a RHD one, like my 41 Plymouth then you have a problem as RHD cars have something living on the RH side of the engine that you Yanks don't have.....lol.........yep the Oz steering box lives between the oil and fuel pumps so the Fenton headers won't fit, at least the front one anyway.......and I'm pretty sure that the rear Fenton style headers will foul on the clutch and/or brake pedals when they follow thru...........lol..........still, RHD accelerator linkages are a snap.......lol..........regards, andyd
Tom, try giving these guys a call.......Pauls rod and bearing....816-587-4747. I struggled to find their website, but finally did. Here's what I found: 218 41-53 cyl. 1,3,5 PK19NN cyl. 2,4,6 PK19PP Those are Pauls #'s, not casting numbers. And YES, 230 rods are different,but Pauls doesn't give length dimensions. It's likely that 218 and 230 use the same piston which would mean that the 218 rod would be longer to make up for the shorter stroke. Ron
Here's mine: I just browsed above and have found that all of the links I'd have given you are listed above. When the old motor in my 54 blew up earlier this year, i swapped it for the motor pictured, which is just another 218, (but i paid $200 for a running motor, versus investing the $3k i don't have right now into my 241 hemi that sitting in the back of the garage.) Anyway i still had to buy a bunch of new odds and ends: seals, gaskets, hoses, mounts, all of which is accessible through the links provided. I saw Andy's name there, but the link if it hasn't been provided yet is: http://www.oldmoparts.com/parts-accessories.aspx Good luck with your car! Here's a thread about my swap, might be something of technical use in there somewhere http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=724420&showall=1
Yes you can. Here is mine. The exhaust and pump are not as close as they appear. I have had no problems with mine in Texas weather so no worries about heat transfer.
Tom Langdons Stove bolt in Michigan, helped me bigtime. T-5 to flathead, Fenton headers. Mini HEI ignitions. Intakes..... He is a fountain of info. Most stuff is on his website
I just stumbled on this older thread, thanks for all the 6er info. My 54 Savoy is on the fence about rebuilding the tired engine or small blocking it.
There is another thread about a 1950 DeSoto, the owner wants to install a big block V8 he can't afford and junk the original 251 cu in Six. If you can find the thread, and he is not too far away, you may be able to get a good deal on the engine, trans and fluid drive. This engine can be fitted to a Dodge or Plymouth even though it is a few inches longer. The 251 is second only to the hard to find 265 in terms of displacement and HP.
I have never heard of the 265. Is it a bolt in or would my effort be better put towards a v8? I really do like the 230 3speed combo though, smooth. Just getting tired and starting to smoke.
Because the Chrysler and DeSoto were physically larger cars, they required larger engines. There are two basic designs, the 23" and the 25"; the 218-230 are 23" and the 251 and 265 are the 25" As the label implies, the 251-265 is 2" longer than the 23" so some fussing has to be done for most swaps. Stare at what you have now and see what has to move forward 2". The 251 (250.6) was used from 1942 to 1954, Chrysler and DeSoto. The 265 (264.5) was used from 1952 to 1954, Chrysler only. Check with www.wildcatmopars.com they likely have one and you might even find one locally through CL and such. The cost to rebuild is little diferent between the 23 and 25. The LA swap is very popular, been done hundreds if not thousands of times, but alot of other stuff will also be changed in the process. Your existing bellhousing and flywheel (230 only) will work on the 25". .
And if you do pull that 230, stick it in a crate and send it me me in the UK!!! would love to up one of my 218's to the 230 rank
...all you really need is the crank and con-rods... and, there is a container leaving for the UK on a regular basis it would seem.. .
You can uprate a 218 to a 230 by installing the crankshaft and rods from the 230. They all use the same piston, you have to have the right rods to make everything fit. The 265 is the 3 7/16" bore Chrysler/DeSoto block with a 4 3/4" stroke crankshaft. This is the max stroke that will squeeze into that block, they had to make special headless rod bolts to clear the block. Canadian Plymouth and Dodge used the big Chrysler/DeSoto block, suitably detuned. The Plym/Dodge had a 3 3/8" bore. They made different crankshafts, 4 1/8, 4 1/4, 4 1/2 and 4 3/4. You could actually take a Canadian 218 block, bore it to 3 7/16 (Chrysler size) + a 1/8 overbore, for a total of 3 9/16 bore, combine that with the 4 3/4 crankshaft and take the 218 all the way out to 284 cu in. A friend of mine who is a Chrysler expert specializing in late hemi and big block rebuilds, did a 1942 Dodge six for a customer. He sonic tested the block, he told me it had the thickest cylinders of any engine he ever tested. Could easily be bored 3/16 over stock. This detail could be important for our overseas readers. A lot of Chrysler products for Empire markets were sourced from Canada, as a way of dodging import taxes. So your Canadian made Plymouth, Dodge, DeSoto or Chrysler may well have the long, 25" Chrysler block, even though the displacement is much smaller than a Chrysler. As 73RR said, The 265 was used for only 3 or4 years in Chrysler Windsor but they were also put into Canadian made DeSotos in 53 and 54. They were used in Dodge trucks, 1 1/2 ton and larger up to 62, and as industrial engines especially in M***ey tractors and combines, and as marine engines. So, you never know your luck. A marina may have an old 265 in its s**** pile, after someone replaced it with a diesel. Or, one could turn up on a farm, in a junk tractor or other piece of equipment.
That's cool, I was just joking. It seems that if the ring gear needs to be changed the Bendix on the starter also requires changing to accomodate all them extra teeth. Alternatively I believe its possible to machine the bellhouse down to get the original 218 and 218 bendix to work, really depends on skill and commitment I guess. Containers and shipping parts is the next thing ill be researching for sure!
Extra teeth? Are you referring to the redesign of the starter and flywheel when they went to 12 volts? The higher speed of the 12V starter, required a finer tooth ring gear and starter pinion to prevent premature wear. This was pretty well standard procedure on every car when they went to 12V.
Oh thanks Rusty, I hadn't thought about that but id say your right. I had thought that 218 flywheel had 146 teeth and the 230 flywheel 172. But if as you say this changed with the higher voltage system then that's perfectly sensible. Was there any difference in the flange thickness in the 12v era?
That is a good question. I know some engines have different thickness flywheels or something that throws off the alignment of the starter and flywheel. Not sure exactly what the difference is or what engines have what flywheel. I know in about 1962 Chrysler changed all their engines from attaching the flywheel with nuts and bolts, to using cap screws threaded into the crankshaft flange. This allowed moving the flywheel forward and shortening the crankshaft.
It is the thickness of the rear crank flange. The 230 is about 3/16 thicker than the 218, so the 230 flywheel has a 3/16 deep recess on the mating surface of the flywheel. If you mount a 218 flywheel on a 230 crank the ring gear moves 3/16 toward the rear of the bellhousing. Conversely if you mount a 230 flywheel on a 218 crank it moves the ring gear 3/16 closer to the rear of the block.
^^^^^^^hkestes is spot on! I hadn't considered the possibility that dudford's question was in regards to a 25" 218 as it is certainly possible, and makes a world of difference. Need some ID on the engine. With reagards to the 146 vs 172 issue: IIRC, only the V-8 got the 172 in 1957, the I6 retained the 146 through the end of production. The interchange issue pops up since all I6 and V-8 crank flange designs remained the same until the change over for the 1962 p*** car model year. .
This is a good question. If you need to replace your engine, a Chrysler or DeSoto engine is practically a bolt in deal. They are about 2" longer, you may need to relocate your motor mounts and radiator but some frames are already drilled for both motor mount locations. Much easier and cheaper than a V8 swap. The problem is, can you find a good engine? If you find an engine, they can usually be rebuilt if necessary at low cost. They are a simple engine and parts are cheap and easy to get. By the way, if you are happy with the 230, you might be surprised how cheap it is to rebuild it.
The Jalopy Journal
