These are the Sanderson shorty headers for 67-69 Firebird p/n PF-1 If someone has a set of these, I could really use a picture of the driver side header from the top bolted on the head to gauge how far the tubes come off the port.
Well, I plan on street driving the car, but I also intend on running it at the track. I would like to attend the Meltdown Drags, as well as a little local bracket racing, but primarily it will be driven for fun. Why would it matter if I use HO manifolds or block hugger headers? I have a clearance issue with the steering gearbox, and the car has an X-frame, so full length tube headers are out of the question.???
Well, I figured you wanted to go as fast as you could..Most people do.. Of course it doesn't matter one bit for bracket racing. I thought someone who could build those motor mounts, could modify a real set of headers to fit.. What did they do back in the late 60's? There were tons of those cars in Stock Eliminator
I do want to go as fast as I can............with what I have.........on a budget. I have no idea what they used 50+ years ago. Not that I can't modify a set of headers, I would if I had an old set lying around, but I'm not going to shell out $375,and then start hacking on them. FWIW, a group of Pontiac engine builders dyno tested some engines and tested back to back between stock HO manifolds,shorty headers,and full length headers. There was virtually no difference between the shorty headers and the stock HO manifolds, and the full length headers only gained an additional 14hp. The Pontiac engineers did a really good job on the factory manifolds, both the intake and the exhaust. Heck up until a few years ago there wasn't an aftermarket aluminum intake that really made any more power than a stock cast iron Q-jet intake. The same basic intake design that was made for NASCAR was bolted on every engine from the 60's up through the end of Pontiac V-8 production.
Well ,ya never know..You might learn a few things from Stock racers of 45 years ago. So, how much are shorties or HO manifolds, compared to a flange kit, collectors , and some J bends? 14 hp? That ought to be a couple tenths I would think. Be careful with what you read in those Pontiac mags...First item of business is to help their sponsors sell product... Next you'll be thinking you've got to port the sh* t out of D port heads to run in the 11's. It looks to me like they used to go under or over the frame and out the fenderwell..kinda like the 348 Chevys
I have heard that the long branch manifolds for big cars work well on these cars. They are like a header and flow well. Ram Air Restoration also sells these. They arent cheap. I also have a 58 Pontiac. I haven't started on it, but when I do I think I am going to build a set of fenderwell headers for it.
I too need to know about exhaust options for Pontiacs, I'll be swapping in a 455/w/2004r into my wife's 55 Safari before summer.
I wonder how a set of 3 tube headers would fit? Thats what i'm running on my 55 but have the engine mounted up about 2" higher and off to the passenger side a little. Having it at the Meltdown would be great. There could be a possible line up of 55,56,57 and 58 Pontiacs all lined up together.
I'm not trying to get into a pissing match, I simply would like to see a pic of the sanderson headers from a different angle/view to judge how far the tubes come off the ports. I have been building and racing cars for the Pure Stock Musclecar Drags for the last 15 years. By the rules we have to build a casting number correct engine from factory carb,down to and through the factory exhaust manifolds. Many of the cars that we race have been blueprinted and fine tuned and easily outrun what a similar car ran in stock/super stock back in the day, and we are doing it through full exhaust on G70-14 reproduction redlines, so we have taken the knowledge of the super stockers of 45 years ago, and added 45 years of tech advances,experience, and throwing wives tale theories out the window, only using what actually works, by learning from they're experiments. In fact, quite a few of the guys are old super stock drivers that enjoy the challenge of making a stock car go as quick as it can, built within the rules. My point to this is, long tube headers(headaches) aren't required to go fast, will they make more power? Yes, but it Depends on how radical the engine is that they will be bolted to as to how much of a benefit they will be. A higher rpm engine is going to utilize them more than a low rpm stump puller.
Here are the pics of the Sanderson shorty's. I simply called them and asked for some pics of the driverside header from a couple different views. I think they will work great with a good deal of clearance.
Bought the Sanderson headers, made the trans cross member, and modified the trans tunnel to accept a 1 piece shaft. Shift linkage made and functional, now it's time to open up the engine and get this thing ready to go.
What kind of E.T.'s are you running in your 55? Where are the majority of the cars running for E.T. at the Meltdown Drags?
I've only been running the 1/8 lately, my best was a 8.7 but letting off 3/4 down the track dropping 20 mph, still went too fast on my dial in but probably should have at least been in the 8.5-8.6 which is a 13.3-.4 range. I'm still trying to figure out what it wants for timing, it still has more in it. Thats going thru old 3 tube headers also. Really the times are all over at the Meltdown from 8's to 18's. There's alot of 10-11 second cars.
A properly sized (tube diameter and length) set of equal length headers will make more power than manifolds any day. You have to size them to make them work. Off the shelf stuff is usually too big diameter and too short length wise.
pm sent, didn't want to tatally hijack this thread, unless 58 Pontiac wants it posted here. I never added everything all at once in my build thread
Who is the guy with the other 55 pontiac "old injun"?,and what does his car run in the 1/4? Meltdown Drags is 1/4 mi. correct? I'm just trying to figure out how far I want to go with the engine build. I don't want to spend a fortune, but I don't want to show up with a knife at a gunfight either. I have a small block Chevy on the stand that would have easily put this thing in the 12's, and would have done it cheap, but I didn't want to put a chevy in a Pontiac, there are already enough Chevy powered cars running around. I'm going to have to spend some coin on a good set of heads, or dump a bunch of money into my heads to make this thing run into the 12's.
Cool car, <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o> </o> Yes I have two Chevy X frame Drag cars with the one pc drive shaft if you would like some photos let me know
Well my friend , I thought you had this all figured out. You should be able to put that car into the 11's with stock heads, valves. Somebody has been reading too many magazines...
Well then, why don't you enlighten us all, and fill us in on the details of your 10 second Pontiac. One of us thinks we have it all figured out.....but it ain't me,my friend.
I dig this build, love them Chieftains. I'm with you 58pontiac, I also like to be filled in on the details.
You have 1 really cool Pontiac there and I admire your work. Cool that you are doing it yourself. That drivers side header was close huh, but cleared ok ? Marky, you aint kiddin on the Hurst slicks. You can't beat the looks but they are made of a really hard compound and they don't hook for beans. Maybe they're ok with with a low hp normally aspirated Injun, but my 455 even with only 4 lbs boost and they just fry. I run the same size tire as you.
Old injun is a 56. I think in the 15's if I remember correctly. He runs a 59 389 and a 55 dual range hydro . You could buy my engine lol, I have a 455 that will put me in the 11's I need to build. Your building a 400 correct. With a 0 deck, unported 72 cc heads and the right cam will get you 400 horse easy and in the 12's.
Never mentioned any 10 second Pontiacs I built..There were a few. There's a couple 11 second ones with stock ports> 64 Tempest 3300 # , .030 over TRW , Solid lifter .525 cam with 1.5 Magnum rockers, 120# seat pressure, Performer RPM , 800 Q jet Turbo 350 , 5700 shifts on the governor, 9" ,4400 converter, 4.10 gears Unported #62 heads, 3 angle and filled exh., Ferea valves , no backcut. 11.59 @115 , 1.55 60' 62 Tempest STREET CAR,455, .040 TRW ' s , 5/64th top ring , stock type oil rings and expanders. #96 UNPORTED heads, stock valves with 3 angle seat...Engine was in my station wagon for 8 years. I took it out , installed a 236 /243 Crane bracket cam, RPM manifold, 800 Qjet, puffed the heads, changed the springs, and put in the car. The short block was still tight..Took a breaker bar to turn it over..Not a racing engine. The Tempest had a 3.73 12 bolt , 200 4 R trans ,and a 4200 9" converter. It would run 11.90's through the mufflers with ET Streets, after driving it to the track Dropped off the exhaust system and put on 28 x 9 Hoosier slicks, and it would run 11.73 or so, 1.53 60 ' times. Incidentally , I first built the 455 in 1986 with STOCK PONTIAC RODS and good bolts..It had been in 5 different cars with over 2000 runs , including one track championship, and never hurt a rod or bearing Never saw 6000 RPM either.. So there goes another myth tonight...
YAC- What myth was that? And who are you trying to prove something to? You know nothing about me. You know nothing about my car.You know nothing about my goals.You know nothing about my engine,it's details,it's compression,or what I have sitting around to put on it. You don't know the cars weight, you don't know if I'm going to gut it, you don't know if I'm going to add weight, you don't know my budget,etc.,etc.,etc. How on Earth can you possibly sit and tell me what this should or shouldn't run when you have no details or info? Your trying to make an argument where there is no argument. So your cars run good with stock heads. I know Pontiacs run with stock heads, I've had a few too,no argument that Pontiacs run well. This is being built for FUN on a BUDGET,and I stress BUDGET. Thanks for the input.
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