Flathead in an A frame, can we talk about it?

Some of you could do this in your sleep. I'm sure I can handle it easily, however I have no interest in re-inventing the wheel or breaking any "molds" by going forward. I've decided to continue the A pickup "sort of" as planned, but a hopped up banger is out, flatty in. This won't happen this year but the truck will be up and running as-is.

That said, what's the standard approach to dropping a flatty in an A frame? I did a search, got the "phone book" of info but nothing that directly works toward "you do this and do that.." type of discussion. Well not in the 1st 3 pages or more anyways. Cal me a noob, rookie, I don't care, but as I gather the bits and pieces this season I'd like to be headed in the right direction. Also, if some knows a thread that spells it out better, I thank you in advance for flippin it in here. And yes I plan on juice brakes and all the other requisite updates. In the end, other than bolt-on stuff, the engine will be stock. Thanks in advance...

 

Get Vern tardel's book. All the info you need.

 

Sent ya a pm.

 

vern tardels book is OK..its just a referance.. if you look at my build thread, its preatty detailed on putting a flattie in a model a frame.

i purchased the book and it didnt do much for me. i had to fit everything my own way.. it was a nice referance but thats about it.
hope this helps

 

All depends on what transmission and rearend you prefer. And do you want a traditional center crossmember or a new construction?

 

Do not take the book as an absolute truth when in regards to measurements! I did. When I got the book I followed it word for word on how to make motor mounts and set them in the frame. This was all before I even had my engine ready to go in. The book shows a way to make motormounts, but there is a misprint on the hole diameter. FYI flathead motormounts use a 1.25" hole. Also the measurement the book gives for setting the motormounts was not even close for my app. I still think its a great book, but now I question everything I get from it.

Are you just dropping the flathead in a stock Model A, or will you be modifying the entire truck? If you don't plan on running a hood you could move the grill forward a little.

 

Trans will most likely be a V8 trans, rear axle will also be an update but to the A rear spring/cross member. I have some Lincoln brakes hanging about, some other stuff here n there, but essentially want to approach this as if a flatty got dropped into an other wise nice A pickup. I may do some frame boxing/welding before it gets done the 1st time, also might **** a nice deal on a flathead here soon.

 

So, are we done talkin about it? Should I ask for pics?

 

Well I don't have anything to ad, I just wanted to call you a noob.
Rhere that will keep your thread alive for a bit.

 

let me know what you need i will help you out in anyway possible. like i said i have alot of pics in my build threat. i used a 37 21 stud flathead, 37 trans, 40 rear, 36 front axle,39 pedals.
the transformation is not a SIMPLE as it seems or a s some guys make it sound.. but it is fairly easy going if you take your time and measure and think..
the best thing to do is get the motor set in where everything clears, then fit your f1 box inplace and adjust motor accordingly, fab your trans mount and pedals.. then do the rear end last. that way the torque tube when cut is perfect for where the motor is located and there is no clearance issues at all.. of you need anything PM me

 

Look up threads on Chris's coupe.

 

that's the 4 banger....you want his roadster.

Basically when I built mine I had the body on and the radiator. I dropped the engine between the two. Made sure the engine was far enough forward I could get the p***enger side head off. then placed the frame engine mounts where I needed them. weld. Done.

It's really that simple.

You will need a early generator with a fan. Not the two belt setup like 59AB's.

 

Here's my old roadster frame. Used Vern Tardel front mounts and an F-1 cross member. 40 rear with A spring hangers welded to it. Pretty easy but it's tight

 

Chris...I plan on doing the exact same thing to my 29 roadster with a 38 flattie and trans and 39 rear. Now, I noticed that you didn't box or cross section your frame...do you plan on leaving it like that or were the pics simply for reference?

 

That's eggsactly how I'm gonna do my AR '28 pickup when I get a round toit.

 

It's boxed from the stock center cross member to slightly forward of the F-1 cross member. With a flathead, I see no need to fully box it. It's a buggy spring, unsplit wishbone car. I wanted it to still ride like one.

My brother owns this car now, he finished the mess I started. He's done a great job, it should see the road in the next couple months

 

You will notice I welded the VT mounts on the frame upside down...this was because I was gonna run a 1934 221. The mounts are lower then a later V8, hence the risers needed to put a 37-up V8 into a 32-36 Ford.

The roadster now has that 1934 V8 that I had destined for it

 

This is getting better. Worse maybe, but better in my book. The F-1 crossmember is interesting. The rear axle too, and keeping a full wishbone front and rear. I know there's always the possibility of a deuce frame but I want to hit a specific look here. Juice brakes and some stability mods for the suspension are in order too. They may come before the V-8. It's in the shop for a new round of labors and I'm almost tempted to tell Mrs Highlander to wait, but I think I can hold her off from spending $$$ if I tell her "her truck" is getting done. I don't mind runnin the banger for the 1st year, but not forever...

 

There was also an 'A' build with a '48 Ford p***enger car FRONT crossmember used in the center. Dropped right in place, rivet flanges over the side rails...
Some minor surgery was necessary to mount the rear, but all within close parameters.

I was surprised, having access to all that Ford stuff and performing so many builds over the years...I was a staunch believer in the F-1 center member. Period.
But there's also the '28-'30 Chevy center cross member...

 

Seems like the F1 was Henry's gift to hotrodders. Steering, brakes, crossmembers, closed rear banjos...

Just for my information, which years do I need to look for to find the correct F1 steering box?

 

1948-1952 1/2 ton pickup. FYI, the open drive banjo was only 42-47

Chris

 

I would use a 53-56 F100 box and just cut the flange down
A little

Move it back a few inches from the original mount
In the ch***is

Easier than the f1 box modifications .

 

I'll politely ask some of you proud A frame/flatty owners for some pics. I know there's several on the forum, generally speaking, but wow does it eat time looking for them. I've really enjoyed the build threads shared already and you're (not!) helping this idea a bunch. Ok, that "not!" would be Mrs Highlander...

 

Here is another way to put a transmission mount in. I also extended the wish bone and attached it to the bottom of the cross member.

 

The above two photos is basically exactly what i had in mind for putting a v8 / v8 trans into my model a frame. I am going to use some 75 x 50 RHS and make them just like the mounts in the vern tardel book, and then something along the lines of the above for a rear trans mount.

From all the reading i've done it seems the easiest way is to use a model a diff and torque tube to get the spacing right, use the vern tardel mount for the front and then mount the trans to suit.

I have the original trans mounts from a '35 ch***is that i'd LOVE to use, but really don't know if they will work out.. i highly doubt it. Such a shame. Perhaps will use the rear mounts as the front mounts to keep it somewhat "authentic".

Edit: Also had another thought.. I'm going to be using a bare flathead block for mock up purposes, only due to it being far less heavy than a complete engine.. if you have access to a busted engine block i'd probably suggest using that. Might make the lifting side of the job easier.

 

Loving this thread, also really like the above 2 pics. I too am starting to build an Av8, mine must be prewar equipment, so the f1 cross member is out for me. I might put in a 32 K member, or I might just build something like above. Like an idiot a sold my 32 bones and axle a few years ago, so Ill probably stick with A bones, and pop on the 32 brakes, probably use a 34 rear. I wanted to use a 21 stud for the build, but the I got a set of 24 stud heads Im dieing to use (pic in a few weeks when a few more goodies arrive). Hence my thread from last night about using the 32 motor mounts (anyone got any for sale?). I even plan on using the mechanical brakes. Make it look like it was updated in 34, then had a 24 stud dropped in about 1939. Thats the plan anyway.

If im not using the 32 bones (which I have no plan on doing), the rear bone mount is the last big hurdle in my plans. I guess I should make another crossmember to hold it?

Thanks, Beech

 

Not finished off yet, but you can get the jist by looking at the pics

your standard motor mounts you'd see in the Tardell/Bishop book


The rear mount I used some 3x4x1/4 angle, drilled it out to accept the same rubbers as the front. Jacked the ****** in place and Looked at what needed to be trimmed.





The front of the crossmember got the same treatment as the rear of the crossmember.

 

Cool idea.
What do you do about pedals?
Mike

 

Still not pre-war, but the "F-1" crossmember technically came out in 1942 1/2 ton pickups.