Champ quick change axle ideas

I would caution you to stay away from the 80's style with the smooth bells and full floating axles. They were famous for breaking the axle ends.

Lynn, I have never heard of the problems with the smooth bells and full floating axles. Can you explain further?

 

HI; I have had a Frankland rear in my Model A pickup for 12 years with a full spool, LOVE it !! pics in my profile. Chris

 

I have several friends(and myself) who purchased this very smooth looking rear end and consistently had axle problems ( the axle would come loose and the wheel would fall off). The solution was to redo the tubes with 9 inch Ford bearing ends for pull out axles which was costly. Halibrand later switched to the pull out axle type to solve the problem. The smooth housing cracked on a few of the units also. The red one in the photo came out of Edelbrock's roadster when he went to a higher horsepower motor a few years ago. Roy figured why chance it as he had installed several of these units for his customers. They are good looking units and were built to look like the 40 axle tubes. Pete painted his and was one of the first to install one when they came out. Maybe high HP was the cause or load on cornering was the problem? - We all changed to the good set up and have had no problems.

 

I had a set of the smooth bells a long time ago. I think I sold them to Gary Heidt. He has never told me he had any troubles. That rear end had Ford Large bearing axle ends.

I'm still not clear on the 'full floating' axles. In your picture, they look to be a cross between early Ford housings and flanged axles. I'd like to see more pictures of these.

I think there is a way to use old Ford backing plates and brakes while having the safety of a true full floating axle. I just haven't had time to put it all together,

 

I know this is an old thread, but has any current info been surfaced about Champs and f2 split case bells? Sounds like the side gear 4236 in the diagram is what would be nice in 31 spline. Be nice if the 9" side gears would mesh with the spiders, and only machine the carrier to accept them.

 

4236 is a 11 spline deal (I believe, it's been a bit since I counted them) that is too big to get the typical 9" axle splined to. I have asked on a couple of threads about the possibility of using 9" side gears, but only got one solid answer on another thread. It sounds like it'll be about the same deal as the V8.late model plug in axles deal, with machining of the carrier for them to drop in.

 

I wonder if the pitch on the 9" side gear mates properly to the f2 Timken? Machining the carrier is not the issue. I just did a banjo conversion, where I used ford ranger 28 spline side gears and they meshed VERY well with the 46-48 banjo spiders. Its not like you see the split housing for f2 housing laying around at the salvage yard much.

 

I wish I had the f2 side gear in hand, I have some 31 spline 9" side gears to compare them to.

 

It has been awhile since I played with the old F2 differentials, but I purchased one on ebay a few years ago with welded spiders (11/12 splines?) and I replaced them with 9 inch side gears with 28 splines as I recall. I had to grind the gears to make everything mesh but I did it on a belt sander so it wasn't much. I had new axles made and they worked fine. I don't know why you would want to use the old stuff with all the new good differentials available from Winters and other people. Replacement parts are easily obtainable and you get a locking differential as opposed to an open carrier. Quickchange on here has probably done many in his career with QC's. Quickchange Exchange in Santa Fe Springs, CA also makes a nice differential for a Champ model 10" ring and pinion.

 

Just thinking outside the box, and trying to learn about them. Your advice is very WISE.

 

I forgot about this thread. I have wanted to find the answer to this question for a long time. I have one set of 31 spline side gears (origin unknown) that drop right into the f2 differential. However, I do not have the cross or spider gears to confirm that the conversion will work. Both of the carriers that I have with original parts in them have been welded. (Lincoln Lockers)
I have replaced a lot of differentials in these rear ends to get to a 31 spline configuration. They are all have been some type of Limited slip. I think I currently have 6 types that will replace the original Ford carrier. Two styles of Detroit Locker, the Tracks (Gold track, Tru-Trac, Diamond Track etc.) Gleason-Torsen , Vari-Loc. and a clutch pack type that I would call a Positrac (like the old GM style).
The 'tracks' are only available in steel with aluminum end caps. The lockers come in steel or aluminum. Vari-loc in aluminum. Positrack is aluminum, Gleason Torsen, either. The old lockers can be had with 12 or 32 spline. The rest are all 31.
As Lynn said the modern stuff is available and relatively inexpensive.

Along these same lines, I have used 12 spline axles a few times. Moser can make the axles with the big co**** splines and use a big bore 9" style bearing. So you can use the big bearing Ford style housing ends. (either style) and have the wheel bolt pattern drilled to your preference. So the only custom pieces are the axles/bearings package.

 

It looks like the side gear has 16 teeth, can you tell how many teeth are on the spiders?

 

I have a complete F-2 Differential with the heavy side gears for the 11/12 spline floating axles. I also have two F-2 side bells and Franklin Q.C. to stick between. I also have a pair of early Bronco axles, but I believe they are 29 spline. getting from one to the other has been the hold up...

 

Bronco's should be 28 or 31 spline.

 

And the f2 are 12 spline. (no 11s)

I might have a pair of 28 spline side gears.

 

Yes, 12 spline sounds about right. I haven't had time to even look at this stuff in so long I forgot which they had.

If you do have some 28 spline side gears, I'd love to get them from you. I will have to double check my axles, but I am pretty sure they are 28s.

 

I'd like to get louvers from you! I'm sure we can work something out. I need to find them and then verify that they will work in your carrier.