Iv a 51 desoto convert that i put a 72 nova sub frame in and done every thing i no to get it to drive strait.The top ball jount is behind bottom.Subframe is level not tilted up or down.Was wondering if i could put ajustable aarms on it like the mods run any help would be app.
Until you find the problem throwing parts at it won't help. What's does your alignment guy say is the problem?
iv be told to put off set uper aarm bar did that ben told to check to see if subframe was tilted down did it is level.Had it lined 2 times came out worse 2 time so i lined every thing my self set toe 0-0 camber 0-0 caster 1/4 to 3/8" behind bottom.To get caster iv got 1/2 worth shimes on back bolt none on front any more on back and meses up my camber dont no whats next any thouts
I put a 77camaro in a 52 chevy car and the trailing end of the clip put parrella with car.If you are using a SBC the engine mounts maybe off also.My guess its tiped up or down.
top ball joint SHOULD be further aft than the bottom one, this gives you the caster; the top A-arm shaft should angle (slope) towards the rear at about 6-7 degrees where are you taking your "level" measuremants from?
That's kinda what I was getting at. I'm hoping he didn't "level" fore to aft off of the anti dive built into the upper A arm mounts...
I've always leveled the clips beforehand, front to back, left to right and checked the degree measurement on the upper a-arm and welded them into a likewise leveled frame at that. Was always around 8 degrees. Level your frame, the original frame from the firewall back, and check the upper a-arms then. Should be a layback of around 8 degrees like the GM engineers designed .
HOW did you graft it to the stock frame? I have a 51 Plymouth 3W with the same swap, I did it myself years ago, and I'm concerned about the spot where you mated the 2 frames together. Measure from the grease fittings on the left and right lower ball joints back to the rear end housing (a framing square against the housing works great). Keep the same tension on the tape on both sides. If it can't be aligned, you may have ended up with a wheelbase problem in the frame itself. Do NOT assume anything, check it and be sure...
A photo or two of the subframe install would help. I'm with Needlouvers in that if it isn't driving right or you can't get it set right the installation may be wrong. On the two that I did on my own rigs and put a lot of miles on I set the subframes up so the end of the back legs of the subframe was parallel to the frame rails of the car it went on. That sets the subframe up so that it works the same as it did on the donor car. Both of those rigs would track hands off the wheel at 80 on a straight road for at least 300 yards or more. Both had rear steer Nova/Camaro subframes. On adjusting the camber / Caster. Usually I could set the camber and keep it the same by adding shims on one end and removing the same amount of shims on the other end to adjust caster. That worked on most every one of the four or five thousand alignments I did on GM cars over a period of years. Try that to get the caster. Reading what you wrote in post #3 I am having a real hard time believing that you have any idea of what you are actually doing and are just pissing in the wind in an attempt to get it to work instead of actually setting the alignment. What are you using for a caster/camber gauge? Since you are in Iowa were the roads have some crown to them so that the rain will run off I'd suggest setting the left side with 1/2 degree + camber and the right side with 1/4 degree + camber and setting the caster between 1 and 1-1/2 + with 1/8" toe in. That should get the car to drive down the road fairly decently and track well if the subframe is installed correctly and the rest of the variables are right. With 0 camber in both wheels that car will drift to the right and with 0 caster it will not track straight straight and most likely the wheel won't return to center like it should.
I did my clip 20 years ago, just attached the bottom of the frame extensions to the bottom of my truck frame, never had to align it and it drives perfect. I must be the luckiest bastard in the world, I guess.
Stroker that is exactly what I was talking about in post 10. You can see that the rear legs of the subframe are exactly parallel with the frame rails of the truck. Even if a guy doesn't use the rear part of the subframe (and a lot don't) the concept is the same if you want it to work right.
X2. I've NEVER had a problem with drivability or tracking after installing a frame stub. I really want to know how the base measurements and level where taken. On G-body clip I use the rad support mounting pad. If it's level and the frame that your graphing to is level, you'll never go wrong.
I used magnetic degree gage on bottom of crossmember and red 0 motor is behind cross member slide stub in side desoto frame at fire wall and plated all for sides.aligned every thing with plum bobs and tape maysering center of top ball joint bolt and bottom boll joint bolt i have rechecked all my center lines from when i put it in and still the same every ting was level and centerd mr48chev you are right im just trying to get it to work
So is it actively pulling to one side, or darts around on the road, or what? By your measurements on that spindle, you have about 1.5 - 2 deg caster. It may just need more. The adjustable upper arms may help, but make SURE you measure correctly to get the right length for your setup.
My Dad and I did the exact same thing on my Studebaker M5 truck 20 years ago. It drives and handles great, no alignment or tracking issues.
it drive strait i can let go of the wheel some times it wonders all over the road more when the wind is blowing cant get any more caster with out messing up camber that wy i was wondering about ajustable uper aarms
The Nova upper a-arms are non-symmetrical. At the front of the arm (straight), the shim pack is for mainly camber and the rear (has a curve) is for mainly caster. So you can't jockey the shims equally back and forth to play with the caster the way you can on a symmetrical arm. Post up a picture of your shim packs & upper a-arm for both sides, that would be a big help for us to help you. Bob
Might be a dumb question, but have you COMPLETELY rebuilt eveything? Center link, Idler arm, lower bushings, upper bushings, ball joints, tie rod ends, etc.?
You say you have more shims in back.More shims in front pushes for more caster. Do you have the lower a arms backwards /See if one in bent, if that is possible. You could also remove rear wheels and lower and see if you can get correct caster. As said top is behind bottom,set when car is level.
Sounds like slop in something, if it normally tracks straight. Went through and replaced EVERYTHING that could be worn on mine (74 nova sub in a53 chevy car) just to make sure im not chasing gremlins
Again, you need to be specific. What did the alignment shop set it up at? Was it a 4 way? Did they tell you you had any problems? SAI ok? Thrust angle? Is your wheel base even? Without good information everything is a guess. Might as well just throw parts & money at it til it goes away
Iwill try to get pic.im no computer person but i will try.As far as parts every thing is new.I did notice the steering wheel has about 2or3 inches of play even though gear box is new from advance auto parts?
That is backwards. More shims in the rear wil result in more positive caster and more negative camber. On this subframe, and many other GM cars the UCA cross shaft is between the engine and the UCA mount.
If you have a new steering box and that much play in the steering wheel, I think you've got some badly worn parts. If so, the alignment shop should have told you.
Put the car up on some ramps so you can get under it and have a helper gently move the wheel back and forth while you check each joint in the steering to see where the slack might be. each tie rod end and the part it's attached to should move as a unit and there should be no slack in the tie rod end. If you see slack you need to replace that part. Start at the pitman arm and work your way through the system. You can usually reach the rag joint with one hand to turn it while you watch for slack in the box as the pitman arm should turn with the steering shaft with very little or no slack. Then the connection between the pitman arm and the center steering link and then the idler arm and on to each tie rod end. It will take longer to get the car up on the ramps than it will to check it. If you have photos of the front end and can't figure out how to post them email them to me mr48chev@yahoo.com and I will study them and put them on my photobucket page and post them.
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