I believe that Dave's '59 was run both ways. Junior Stock rules underwent a far-reaching reinterpretation during the late 1960s. It had been the practice for several years to allow any production transmission to be mated with any available engine within a given product line. That practice had been responsible for the use of Hydramatic truck transmissions in sedan deliveries that were regarded as "trucks." At the same time, big-block transmissions had been allowed in front of small-block engines. When Farmer slammed the door on such practices, four-speed transmissions in '59 small-block cars went the way of the dodo bird. After that point, only 348" '59 passenger cars were recognized as having been available with 4-speed transmissions and racers had to adapt. The 3-speed manual box offered a unique set of durability and drivability problems so many higher profile racers, such as Dave Boertman and Bobby Warren, shifted their interest to the true "sleeper" in the Chevrolet line, any '69 passenger car with an LM1, 255 horsepower, 350" powerplant. c
When I ran into him at Martin US131 the 59 was a three speed. My 57 had been a 4 speed the year before too but thanks to NHRA's enlightenment, a lot of transmission choices that had previously been allowed all of a sudden weren't. Same thing happened to the 170 horse 283 60 Sedan Delivery I had just bought to race as a T/U/V stocker. No 4 speeds and no hydramatics allowed. Gave it to a friend that went over to IHRA to race it. I moved over to IHRA a year later.
Alex Jarrell and Dave Boertman both seemed to be great innovators in that time period. Their respective attention to the 3-spd tranny proves that point. It's great that info like this can be readily disseminated so quickly and accurately by those that were ''there'' and in the ''know.'' Interestingly enough, the old days may be gone, but, the drag racing fraternity remains the same, in as much that we still manage to come together and help one another; give advice, lend a hand, gather together and attend events, and BS just the same. LOL! Isn't that what life and cars are about? Having fun may not be in the same vien as it was during drag racing's heyday, and times have certainly changed given modern tech, but, it allows us to still interact accordingly. It's nice to see this thread coming alive once more. I enjoy hearing the stories on the cars, people and the ever-changing rule mandates that helped establish junior stock into the fierce competitive arena that it became. In the interest of our competitive spirits, opinion, knowledge and contribution to the past, and this thread, I offer a controversial POV. IMHO, I think that the NHRA should never have allowed the Hydro 4-spd, or the manual 4-spd in open (stock) class competition in the first place, where it wasn't a legitimate OEM option. They may not have realized this point in the beginning, but, within a year or so of actual production, it would have been seemingly obvious that the Hydro was not available in any 55-57 Chevy, and that the 4-spd manual was only a Corvette option until 1959, when it first became available in the big car line as well as the Corvette. So let's benchrace a little here and state your opinions on the potential of the small block Chevies without the loophole quasi-legal trans issue. Do you think that Chevy still would have been in the same enviable position as to being the dominant player it was in the early days if racers only had the 'glide, and 3-spd manual, or do you think it would not have mattered? I realize that racers still won after the Hydro and 4-spd were outlawed. However, I wonder about the learning curve being what it was in the early days compared to what it became in the late sixties and early seventies. Opinions, provacative insight and discussion welcome!
benchracer, you make very good points about transmissions,one of the bigest improvments however was made in tire develpment, because it didnot matter what trans you had,if it didnot hook up at the tire you lost. jim cornelius
A true statement. It's amazing how many Jr. Stock pictures from the old days show cars leaving the starting line with smoke coming off the tires. Besides better tires, some other developments that made the world a better place were the line-loc, track prep compounds, water boxes with water burnouts and slider clutches. Old days weren't always the "good old days." I can easily remember when it was not allowed to pour ANY substance on the track, even behind the starting line. If you would like to experience a real challenge, try doing a dry line loc burnout with a 180 horsepower, Powerglide equipped '55 Chevy station wagon Stocker. If Hydramatics hadn't been legislated out of the picture, good torque converters would have killed them off anyway. c
you know you are getting old if you remember when the hottest tire to use was the ATLAS bucron bias ply.
Cornelius#2 and Chuck Norton both make very good points about having adaquate tires. I said as much in my post (#9616) where I commented on the new availabilty of the Firestone Drag 500 becoming a reality in 1968. In the same post, I listed a number of (then) readily available tires and asked which ones were held in the most esteem by racers, and for what reasons. In no way, do I suggust that the Firestone Drag 500 was the epitome of tire technology. I am sure that M&H, and Goodyear were on the top of their game, and lesser known tires like Bruce, Casler, or what-have-you also offered a more or less equal alternative. By 1967, or so, tire technology had really progressed. Even street tires made it possible for musclcars to consistantly crack the 13-second barrier with ease, assuming you had the gears, specific engine/car combo, driver ability, and the available traction. Line-locs, track prep, tire compounds, water boxes, slider clutches, high-stall torque convertors, and a host of other technological advances certainly made all of the the cars faster and quicker, and tires obviously made that all happen, in incremental stages along the way. It is also true that Hydramatics were coming to the end of their dominance by the late sixties, and that might have been an influencing factor in the NHRA's decision to expediate their demise, succumb to the inevitable, and legislate them out of the existance. This is certainly possible and surely self-evident that Hydromatics must have been dwindling fast and their expense was becoming an issue in light of newer, safer, cheaper, more ecomonical and better equipment being offered by the aftermarket, as well as the innovatons that racers were constantly developing in their own backyards.
My earliest recollection of an ''old'' race oriented tire was the Vogue WW in 1967. Atlas Bucrons were around also. I remember reading about Bruce, Inglewood and Casler's, but, to my knowledge, they were virtually unknown in East End Toronto, Ontario. I never actually seen them on the street, and it wasn't until 1969, that I did see both Inglewood and Casler's, at the Canadian National Exhibition, during their annual Wide World Of Wheels car show. In 1969, the Dunlop Tire Co. still existed on Booth Ave. and Queen Streets. My father was employed there in the late sixties. I remember my father talking about some very soft compound tires that a friend ''borrowed'' off of the railway docks one evening after work. I believe that they were an experimental type tire meant for some form of competition, although it may not have been drag racing. At any rate, some fellow obtained them for his then new '68 street and strip driven SD396-375 L-78 Pontiac Beaumont. Dunlop closed it's doors in 1971, and the property was sold to the city and a sprawling new park, and community center was in place, circa 1973. In that same time frame, 1972-73, I was rummaging through countless mounds of used discarded tires, in an old derelict recycling yard, a few blocks south, and there to my surprise, I found a few Caldwells, Bucrons, Spralings, Vogues, and one or two others that I can't seem to recall at the moment, although, I remember reading about them back in the day. Of course, there were a few Goodyear, M-T, and M&H slicks present, but they were obviously too far gone to salvage. Man, there were tires in there dating clear back to the Thirties...but, all of them were of no use to me. I was actually looking for something that my father and his buddies might want to buy off of me for a couple of bucks. I did end up taking a few tires out of that place from time to time, in later years. I was so naive I didn't even realize that a business was run out of there until 1975-76. By then, I had furnished my buddies with a few well worn but still servicable tires for their ratty street jobs that we used to cruise around in. We even tried a few of those old beat up cheater slicks, that managed to stay in that placed for ages. Mostly, I just rolled away good usable street tires for the countless mag wheel set-ups, they were used on. All good things come to an end, and by 1978, or so, the whole place caught fire and burned itself out in about a week's time. Fire departments just hosed the place down and watched it smoulder away. I lost a perfectly good source of cheap tires along the way. LOL!
The 383-343 combo may have been built only in 1962, but, my cousin had one in his 64 Dodge Polara...although he snuck it in there around 1969. LOL!
Hey, Fugly Too; Here it is, baby, in all of it's splendor laid out in Rodder & Super Stock magazine, circa early Seventies. He he he! Can I have half the purse?
...the same '62 Callahan & Sulc ''Villian'' Ply Sport Fury in another article; this time the March, 1970 issue of Super Stock & Drag Illustrated. Ok Fugly Too; I'll settle for 25% of your bet. LOL!
Maybe the '62 Callahan & Sulc ''Villian'' Plymouth Sport Fury was really the 1965 Doug Kahl NHRA World Champion '62 as depicted in the December, 1967 issue of Super Stock & Drag Illustrated. Sorry for the bad pic. I will see if I have a better quality scan and re-post.
...or, could it be Dave Kemptom's 62 ''Shaker'' Plymouth? This one is from an unknown issue of High Performance Cars.
...perhaps, Callahan & Sulc's '62 ''Villian'' Plymouth Sport Fury morphed into the...1962 Motor Trend Magazine 413 Max Wedge Super Stock...ha, ha ha! Sorry, Folks, I'm just having fun.
Blair's Speed Shop '62 Dodge 413 Max Wedge (restored?) from Mopar Muscle Magazine. Sorry, newer pic, but, I can't find an original... <O</O
trying to get memory bank back 45 years, i remember we were running M&H 7 inch tires on the corvette, do not remember tire size, do remember tech inspector at york US30 laying the tape measure on the slick. next thing i know the car is jacked up and brother bill is attacking tire with the (cheese grader) bringing contact back to 7 inches. jim cornelius
Double or nothing that's a Plymouth. The magazine has it wrong. These are both 62's. The Plymouth is blue, the Dodge is red.
Fugly Too; Post #9646 and #9647 both show the same car and both magazines say that that the Callahan & Sulc car is indeed a '62 Plymouth. For arguments sake, I re-scanned the first page of the Rodder & Super Stock article, and highlighted the quote in question in yellow. Actual article was printed sometime after July, 1972. I do not know the exact date. January, 1970 Super Stock & Drag article features same car, two years earlier. I do not possess the complete article in it's entirety. Anyone have it? As far as my later posts, (#s 9648 - 9651) they are in jest, and I do not say that the Callahan & Sulc car is a Dodge, or otherwise. Just pokin' fun, because the 62 Dodge and Plymouths are very similar looking vehicles, and one could be mistaken as to their model identities very easily. Just sayin'. Do I still get a portion of the bet?
Your absolutely right, of course. I have the Olds article, "They're slow, but they sure are ugly!" and I will post it later on today. I am not sure about the "junkyards for lunch bunch" article, but, I will research my collection, and see if I can locate it. I do have other articles on the early Olds and Pontiac's and I will be happy to post them, if there is an interest. Let me know... Terry
That's right! Rodder & Super Stock was talking about Callahan and Sulc's second car as being a Dodge convertible. BTW, does anyone have any pics or an article on the Dodge?
banchracer, I don't have any info on the Callahan and Sulc Dodge, but I will try to take a stab at the question you posted about the NHRA allowing the 4 speeds and the hydramatics in the chevies. I was a kid back in the mid sixties and I lived very close to the Atco drags. Of course, we learned how to slide under the fence and get in for free, but that's a story for another time. We got to check out many of the cars featured here on this thread, and I believe that the 4 speed '57 fuelies and the hydramatic sedan deliveries helped the nhra, the strip owners, and the race promoters sell tickets and to popularize the then fledgling sport of drag racing. We were thrilled to see the Gunnings, Yoo Hoo II, Hydra Phobia, Tokyo Rose, or Bill Smith's Snake Bitten pull up to the starting line. They put on a great show with the combination of a very high winding engine and the more advanced transmission combination. We really didn't care that their power train combo wasn't totally as factory delivered. The NHRA was selling shows, and I think that the entertainment value of these potent little Chevies really helped bring people through the gate, especially here in the northeast. So I think that they were smart to let the rules be bent a bit. It made for a better show and more interesting competition.
Car Craft "They're slow, but they sure are ugly!" Olds article. I have better scans but I will have to post later...for now, enjoy!
Yes, I had heard that POV many times, and I agree in part. Thing is other combos were caught much, much quicker, and made non-legal, so the argument for the Chevies is baised. I agree that the small block Chev 4-spd and Hydro packages were thrilling, fast, and sparked a lot of innovation, and made money for the aftermarket speed czars. They were also easy to work on, cheap to modify (compared to other brand X cars) and proved very, very popular. They were in retrospect good for the sport, but in the end, they had also served their purpose, and the NHRA saw that, and to die-hard Bowtie lovers, the NHRA reacted unfavorably when they were legislated out of existance. LOL! For the record, I have always liked the Tri-Five Chevy, with the 57 being my favorite, and the 55 very close behind...today, it might be the other way around.
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