Thanks to Colesy, I also have the Callahan and Sulc Dodge Challenger article and will post that one soon. All I had to do was refer to his forum stuff. Actually, it's too new fo this thread, so I will a URL to another site if that is cool.
LOL! Too Funny! First time I saw a guy do that was around 1968. I thought that he was ''nuts'' until he explained that he was prepping his car for the next weekend at the strip. You see, he had the ass jacked up, and a brick on the gas pedal, and there he was with a freaking grater doing his thing. Wow! Car was a '60 Chevy Biscayne small block.
Still have mine. Ran across it in the bottom drawer of my #2 tool box last week. In looking back at some of the things we once took for granted, it's sometimes difficult to understand how any of us are still alive or at least still have fingers/hands/arms to work with. c
Isn't that the truth. So many stories, so little time, and so many close calls due to unbridled enthusiam and balls bigger than brains.
funny how we can remember some of the simple things we did or the good times had with fellow racers. yet i have trouble remembering birthdays, wedding dates,and other things important to the better half
AAHHH! Bench I knew you were funnin'....... Especially the part where you say the Dodge and Plymouth look alike. I believe they flipped the Challenger convertible in your neighborhood (Sanair). I don't think it was long after NHRA posted the "convertible=rollbar" rule! If I was to ever win a bet like that, I'd toss a bench race party that results in jail time!
That was a great post. That's exactly what happened. Verne PS: I also came of age in the mid '60s in NJ.
brother doug has an article about the callahan and sulc '62 dodge posted on his jr stk memories facebook page.... https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...05721066.15236.105552472851236&type=1&theater
Hey, 56 Pontiac I/SA; Let's thrill 'em with some early Pontiac's and forget those pesky small block Chevy's for awhile...I'll post the pics and you tell us about them... I don't recall seeing the 58 ''yellow Submarine'' Pontiac article being posted on here before, so, I thought that it might be a refreshing read. It's from the July, 1971 issue of Super Stock & Drag Illustrated. BTW, do you have any info on Robinson's original 55 ''Yellow Submarine'' Caddy? Now that would be different...gotta hear about that one.
Another day, another race...this time, it's the 1965 Eastern Drag News Top Dog meet at Vargo, Dragway, in Perkasie, PA. If you were there, tell us about this race from you POV. BTW, can anyone tell us anything more about Ed's Auto Service Pontiac and Plymouth stockers?
I grew up in N.J. in the early 60's and lived through the factory horsepower wars of 1960-65. "Bending the rules" was half the fun!!! Virtually every major team had "secrets" to their success. In 1963 I can remember driving for a friend of mine, who had just purchased the Roman Red 1962 Corvette A/SP of Ralph Truppi. It was a consistent winner, running 12.60's at 113 MPH. At the same track ( Island Dragway ) I couldn't run better than 13.00 at 109, which was pretty much where all the competition was running.....Why??? My guess would be, they sold him the car and kept their "secrets" !!!! Watching Drag racing today is sooo boring, because every car is the same and they took the individuality and "innovation" away !!!!
Perhaps it's time for some of our members to come ''clean'' with some of their own secrets used and never ''revealed.'' How about it, gentleman?
In my opinion, the "wrinkle wall" slick was the biggest innovation of lower elapsed times and higher trap speeds. First introduced in 1964, running about 5-8 PSI and screwing the tire to the rim so it wouldn't rotate, the slick offered fantastic traction on launch and actually grew taller on the top end, effectively lowering the rear axle ratio and allowing higher trap speeds.
Driving style would be the first thought, but I was a very competitive S/S driver at the time and was asked to drive the car, only after the owner couldn't match earlier ET's. Also, the MPH was off quite a bit and that indicates horsepower, much more than driving style. However, we will NEVER know, and that's kind of my whole point...The mystery was exciting and fueled many a spirited "debate" !!!!
A HALF second quicker with a different driver???? That's' 5 car lengths !!! You can miss 2 shifts and not lose 1/2 a second LOL
Hey noisyboyz; I think that Bob W just said that you might be a lousy driver...LOL! Actually, we all know that driver ability, tuning, familiarity with said car, and track conditions make a huge difference in ET. On the other hand, it is common practice to sell your car sans the hotter (set-up) pieces, especially if you plan on re-using them on something else. Or, in the case of a nationally reknown team, the difference between being on top of your game, or being an also-ran. ...and the beats goes on...
when we were running corvette brother bill was always faster in the car than i was even leaving at same rpm, shifting at same shift points and running all out. only thing i could figure was amount of time bill spent in car as opposed to time i spent behind wheel jim cornelius
Sox, Jenkins, McCandless, Dyno, Strickler; all very good stick men in their day. Of course, there were other's that escape me momentarily. Who's on your bucket list?
There is a video on the internet of a early 60s muscle car track test with 3 non professional drivers and Ronny Sox each taking a turns at the 1/4 mile with 3 different early stick shift muscle cars.They average the times with the non pro drivers,then let Ronnie drive the cars. His et in each of the cars is at least 3 tenths quicker than the rest of the drives.Not many drivers could row a 4 speed like him.Maybe someone here can find that video.Some of the et reduction is also his ability to get the cars off of the starting line without excessive wheel spin.
I was always considered a competitive driver in S/S and there is no way anybody was going to gain 5 car lengths and 5 MPH in the same 13 second car by driving "better" !!!! A car doesn't lose 50 of its 340 Horsepower when sold, so evidently the tricks stayed with the previous owner.....probably head work (undetectable), cam timing, ramp speed mods., internal carb mods., weight saving "techniques" All that can be put back to "stock" when selling !!!!
The last time they held an NHRA points meet at Yellowstone Dragway there was a guy with a 68 Z/28 camaro stocker that was going slower then we did in our D/S 68 Z/28 in 1980. I figured Id help the guy out so I went over and asked him if he had tried stagger jetting the carb. He advised me that it was nothing but an old wives tale so I left him alone. I guess he was going so fast that he didnt need an extra .3 tenths that those old wives run. There were a bunch of other tips I was going to give him worth about .5 total but I guess he didnt need the help. Its tough to be nice to people sometimes. When you have an 11.95 D/Sr these days theres no where to go but up
Ok....For what its worth, here's my thoughts on ET and MPH vs. driver skills. Obviously, Ronnie Sox is an extreme example and undoubtedly one of the best 4 speed drivers of all time. To pick up .3 over novice driver is certainly believable and even likely, but the MPH is the same !!!! Why??? Anybody who has driven a race car will tell you the MPH hardly varies no matter how you leave the line, shift or anything else. As a matter of fact, I have often run MORE MPH while spinning the tires off the line and running a few tenths slower...MPH is very consistent because it's basically a product of how much H.P. is generated to the rear wheels. So, if you buy a car from a competitor which was running 12.60 at 113 MPH and it now will only run 13.0 at 109 MPH....It AIN'T just the driver !!!!!!
I recall an article about the Chrysler drag program, they were serious about it. One of the things they did was mount some kind of photo sensor to monitor front end motion on the shift. Sox was the only factory driver that kept the hood line up with no dips on gear changes. Dude was ON the clutch motion, all before clutchless and Lencos and other driver aides.
Unfortunately, we have a couple of Threads on the HAMB that need constant babysitting. And this is one of them. If this keeps going on, expect another round of cleanups and User Banning. Cut Off date for the HAMB is mid '60s. ( 1964, to be exact ) So that leaves out al the Camaro's, Colts, etc...
No doubt Sox was good, but let's not anoint him to sainthood !!! Plenty of guys in the early 60's could power shift without the nose dropping. Don't forget, almost all the Hot cars were 4 speeds with a clutch..... you either learned how to row-the-box, or you lost !!!!
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