A friend is doing a restoration for a customer and they really would like to go automatic for driveability reasons from the factory fluid drive transmission. Any ideas to keep the stock engine and a modern automatic? Thanks for the help folks.
Chrysler used the flathead sixes through 1959. It should be possible to mate a Torqueflite up to one using factory parts. Not necessarily a modern trans, but they're pretty stout and should be able to handle that six no problems.
You have several choices for adapters for later Mopar or GM automatics. TR Waters and 73RR here on the HAMB have adapters.....also www.transmissionadapters.com (Bendtsens in MN) and Wilcap (Calif), all have what you could use. Ray
I dont know the fluid drives very well but most(maybe all) use engine lube oil to run the torque converter if yours does You may have to change the oil pump as some of the fluiddrives had an engine driven pump with a pressure regulator. Not sure what you do with the oil ports in the back of the block?
Only the ones with a torque converter use the engine oil, the fluid coupler is self-contained. To tell which you have, the TC uses a two-piece bellhousing, the FC bell is one piece.
The Fluid Drive system isn't that bad. It isn't as good as a modern automatic but not bad. They are rugged, reliable, easy to drive, and easy to fix (compared to other early automatic drives). If he checks the cost of changing and decides to keep it, I can give him a few tips that will help get the most out of it. There are a few simple things that make life a lot easier, that you could take forever to figure out on your own. PS the DeSoto NEVER used engine oil (that was the Plymouth HyDrive). DeSoto Fluid Drive was a self contained unit, the Fluid Torque Drive with torque converter had a separate oil pan like an auto trans. The torque converter was not even offered until 1951. DeSoto called their trans Tip Toe Shift but it was the same Fluid Drive unit and M6 semi auto trans used in Dodge, Dodge trucks, DeSoto, Chrysler and Imperial.
Just to be clear... if I had the choice between a Torqueflite and Fluid Drive I would take the Torqueflite. But if it was going to cost $1000 to change it I would keep the Fluid Drive.
Not sure why you can't just use some combination of late 50s flexplate and/or bellhousing combined with early non-push****on TF trans (64, 65?) for a bolt-in swap.
I'll try to offer something on this. The first actual flexplate was on the new /6 in 1960, the v-8 did not see the flexplate until 1962. The smallblock bellhousing and crankshaft were both redesigned for 1962 and the B-RB had only crank flange revisions. The PowerFlite was used on the I6 as early as 1954 and the (early)TorqueFlite then came along in 1957. The inliner used the TF of the day, but it is not the same TF that we generally reference (post-62 style). The Post-62 TF does not use a separate bell as did the earlier designs so the only way to attach one to the I6 is with an adapter (pics on my web site). Hope this helps. .
Good information, thanks. My buddy (mr427ford) is doing this for a customer restoration and her father bought this car new and she wants to drive it but never felt comfortable with the trans in it, so she wants a modern automatic and she is late 60s. This car has set for over 40 years in a garage after her father p***ed away and I think she wants to take her grandkids for rides in it and such. The kits were priced from around $6-800.00 for kit to go to a GM trans of your choice.
The kit for $8OO had the adapter plate, the flex plate and hub adapter, gear reduction starter and bolt kit, not bad for a 100% bolt in kit..
Make sure that they realise that when replacing the mopar trans with a non mopar one that the mopar bellhousing has the rear mounts on either side and the "New" setup, ie non mopar will NOT, therefore something will need to be done to stop the engine/gearbox ***embly from wanting to wobble if it only has the stock mopar front engine mount and non mopar rear gearbox mount..........my 3 oz cents worth....andyd
Yes, but my point is there's some combination of parts that will allow an early TF to more or less bolt into the car without an $800 adapter kit. I guess the next question would be whether one of these can be changed over to be shifted conventionally, or not. If money is no issue, then it doesn't matter, but if there's a budget here, then a little time tracking down someone rodding a late 50s Mopar and buying their RTO trans might keep the costs down a bunch.
I actually agree with you... As said, the pre-60 I6 had PF and TF available, although in ****on drive format. Many nice cars have been fitted with the ****on drive pod and since it is all Mopar it would not look too far out of place. The biggest factor in getting any non-oem automatic trans into the car will be getting the rest of the bits and pieces sorted out, i.e.., rear mounts and such. Any post-62 trans conversion will require even more fussing, regardless of brand. .
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