We are trying to install a pre 49 Flathead that has a trans but it has the closed drive shaft. Is a latter flathead trans going to work,I located a 51 trans that has the open drive shaft. I figured some one here has done this and would know. Thanks for the help.
You need the back half of a '49-up pickup or Merc bellhousing, it adapts the newer trans to the old block bolt pattern. The truck pieces are cast, the cars used steel stampings.
The trans I am looking at has the bellhousing attached. Would it bolt up to our block? If I remember correct its in a 51 or 52 Ford sedan.
If you have a '48 or earlier passenger or '47 or earlier truck engine, the above post is in error. The pre'49 flathead requires the use of a '49/'50/early '51 Mercury transmission or a late '40's thru '52 pickup transmission to get open driveline with the block you have. The Merc trans has a longer tail shaft/housing than the earlier trans which may make a difference. You didn't say what you want to install this in, but all the transmissions mentioned above have a rotating crossshaft for clutch release, rather than a throwout fork style as was used with '49 up Fords and late '51 up Mercs. Ray
This is being installed in a 23T. Yes its a 48 or earlier passenger car engine, sounds like we have more learning to do to get this figured out. Thanks for the help.
This is an excellent place to learn about these engines and transmissions, keep searching. You do have lots of choices actually depending on what you want in the end. There are adaptors for newer transmissions like the T5 which would give you an overdrive. I think Speedway sells them, someone will eventually tell you where to get them. It sounds like you are wanting the older transmission though. Do you want the top mount shifter or the side shifter? This makes a difference on what you would want to do. Mac has some really good information about these transmissions: http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/flathead_transID_3speed.htm Basically the right open drive transmissions are from the pickups. They have the top shifter though. You can swap out gears in these boxes to make a side shift open drive transmission. Because of the various gear ratios available though you would likely expect to swap everything inside the box to do it right. The open drive pickup trans is '42 to '50. IIRC '51 they went with the side shifter in the pickup and with a full bell housing. I recall reading here that the short tail housing and gears all fit into the older transmissions from the '51 pickup. In '49 the cars got a new transmission that has the full bellhousing and long tailshaft so the car transmissions would be a little harder to get to work (I forget the years for the Merc trans, some of them were the old style open drive short tailshaft) Then there is another possible option. In about '48 they redesigned the HD 4spd trans in the trucks. This trans was designed for the full bell housing. But to standardize the trucks a little more, until they changed the clutch setup Ford made a "hogshead" to bolt onto the front of the trans to allow it to be directly swapped with the 3spd pickup trans. If you find one of these "hogsheads" you can modify it to work with other Ford transmissions or even the T5. Do you have pics you can post of the trans you already have or of the newer one you were looking at?
The parts described in # 2 will do the job, are bolt in, and can be found at swap meets,..or ads in Hemmings Motor News. Happy Roddin' 4TTRUK
I will try to get a picture of our trans. It is the side shift and the funny thing is, if we could find one we would prefer the top shift for the build we are doing, not much room under the car between frame rails for the side shift linkage. I sure appreciate the help guys and I have hunted the classifieds , but have not tried Hemmings yet so we will.
'48-'50 F-1 pickups had "central shift" (on the floor), '51 - '52 had "remote shift" (column). There was a major change internally on the trans in mid-'51, that would prevent using the rear shaft in a open drive swap into an earlier trans. On all '48 - '52 trucks there was an optional HD 3-sp that was floor shift, but is much larger. It has wider ratios which can be useful with a steep rear end, but I don't know that it would fit into a T easily.
Here are some picts for you to see what I am talking about in my above post. Here is a pict that I snagged off ebay today. Its the pre '49 open drive side shift (column shifter) car trans. I think this exact trans could only be found in some years Mercury cars, the pre '49 Ford cars had the torque tubes. This trans can be made by using the gears from the toploader pickup open drive gears or as I have read from the later '51 pickup column shifter pickups. Again there are many specifics about gears and such that need to be looked at to know exactly how to accomplish this swap: Here is a pair of later car transmissions I had when I was working on my truck. One is a '49-'50 and the other is a '51 (marked). These transmissions are likely not going to be much use for you, as you can see they don't have the required 1/2 bell. Some of the gears inside could be used if they match up to other gears you have. The input shaft is smaller diam and IIRC the front bearing was smaller also. I don't remember exacts but I seriously don't believe that tail will bolt onto the older transmission: The next 5 are a series of a HD 4spd trans that I found for the Hogshead. I figured I would post all so that you can get an idea of what I am really talking about. As can be seen in the last pict these trans are not very desirable since they are non-syncro spur gears and very heavy. Look closely at how the Hogshead comes apart. Many times you can see in an ad the sharp distinctions between the 2 parts, the older one was cast as one piece like the 3spd transmissions and has smoother transitions between the bell and the case. Also if you get a look inside the "bell" you can see the bolts that hold the 2 parts together: The next pict is one I swiped from ebay several years ago. It is the open drive 3spd trans from a 6 cly pickup '42-'47. They are different as you can see the extra hump on the drivers side of the bell. The V8 trans is round except for the spot for the starter. The gears and tail from one of these should swap into a car column shift case as well:
Sorry I was preparing the lengthy post as you were posting BigB. If you are looking for top shift then it makes your search a little more simple. Basically the '42-'50 1/2 ton V8 pickups (F1) with 3 speed are going to give you what you want. They are out there but can get difficult to find. You might also find one attached to a 6 cyl from an F1 '48-'50. In '48 Ford started to put the V8 trans behind the 6 cyl trucks. Many people swap out the 6 cyl for a Chev 350 / Auto and you can find them paired together for $50-100. That is how I found the one that was going to go into my truck. Remember though that this is just a generality as parts get swapped and Ford may not have totally stopped putting the older 6 cyl trans into some of the newer ones, so make sure you are convinced that the bell looks right for the V8 trans if you find one of the later model 6 cyl combos.
I know I have made the statement that I read that the '51 column shift pickup gears will swap into the older boxes but you have to use the complete set of gears. I guess I should always try to include a post that I read it in In this post Bruce Lancaster alludes to the use of these '51 gears in the older boxes. Bruce notes that the '51 gears and output shaft are different than the older gears so you cannot mix and match with older stuff, you must use everything. Again I have no experience with any gear swap only what I have learned from posts like this. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=91515
MN Falcon I found a trans like the last one you pictured, but turned away because of the odd bump out for the starter that I dont have. Are you saying we could swap the gears into our case? That wouldnt be bad at all.
MN Falcon, your first picture is of an early '50s truck three speed; that style open drive trans never came in a passenger car. The '49-'50 Mercury open drive transmissions had a long tailstock that was similar to the ones on the pair of transmissions in your second picture, but with the integral bell housing.
Hey thanks to everyone for the help and the education. This has all been very helpful, we ended up using the trans we have. The inside is spotless all the gears in great shape. We ordered the shaft to change it to an open drive shaft and we will see how this works. Thanks again to all.
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