Hope I'm posting in the right place. I've been lurking and reading threads here for months and its been extremely helpful but as I get closer to starting my build confusion is setting in. I've got a 51 GMC 350 series COE and my original plan was to be a little different and drop it on a 1500HD or 2500 Quadrasteer chassis. I've almost given up on that plan because of the complexity of the system and the number of sensors involved. Over the years I've learned that I suck as a mechanic so I need to keep it simple and I want it reliable enough to drive and even tow with daily. I need a usable pickup bed and I will be towing a 30'+ long gooseneck 4 horse trailer or a 20 enclosed car hauler often. I want to keep the engine under the cab and I would very much like to go with a fairly modern diesel. My first choice would be the Duramax / Allison combo but I haven't heard of it being done. Can it fit without a monster doghouse? How about the Ford? I certainly have nothing against the Cummins and suspect it may be the best choice? I'm not ruling out a gasser, it's just not my first choice. What about the chassis? If the quadrasteer is ruled out I would like for it to be as simple as possible. I'm leaning towards the newest GM 2500 or 3500 van and have nothing against a dually. Is this the right direction or should I be looking at E350's instead? I'm sure I could work around the steering issues, but the van "seems" to be the simple choice. Any opinions and or personal experience advice will be appreciated.
C.G. Me too.. me too..... I have the same questions. Any advice would be helpful. All I have is the want to so CG is ahead of me. I'd love to buy a completed double cab 50's era COE on a dodge cummins running gear. I'd take the duramax/allison too. Is there anybody out there that has done it? RustyCOE
Just my $0.02, but since the steering makes frame swaps on COE's a bit difficult. Would it be easier to keep the stock frame, maybe put an air-over-leaf setup on it to help the ride, and drop in the engine of your choice in any location you want? I would think a International DT-466 with Allison auto placed towards the back of the cab would give you all the pulling power you could ask for. Of course if the stock frame is junk, trashed, or missing this is a pointless argument. Good Luck
Bruce, holy crap I'd somehow overlooked / forgotten that the GM's were unibody! Thank you sir! FrozenMerc, the frame is good on mine and I've looked at moving the engine back and it would be my first choice if I didn't need the full pickup bed. Good suggestion though. I do plan to make it a double cab. Oddly enough I just called a buddy to see if he and his wife could join us for dinner this week. Since he manages a Chevy dealership I asked him to keep his eyes open for a cheap Quadrasteer. He hasn't had one in several years but took a 2500 Quadrasteer in on trade an hour before I called. This very well may put 4 wheel steering back on the radar. Rusty, keep me updated on your progress and I'll keep my eyes open for a truck for you as well.
IMHO - Buy a reliable factory truck for hauling, especially horses. The last thing you want is anything that could break while towing them. THEN build a hotrod for messing around with. If you must have a hotrod hauler, then run a turbo diesel on a stock chassis, with the stock wire harness, etc. Just do a clean cab swap. Any changes past that will just make life difficult on the road.
kscarguy, that is very good advice and something we have worried about. A local guy dropped a 56 Ford on a modern Ford ambulance chassis that had been rolled. The inside of the cab is stock 2002 Ford right down to the dash and airbag. While not an ideal hotrod, for overall reliability it is something we've considered, especially if we use the Quadrasteer. That brings up another question. Has anyone mounted a 47 to 54 GM cab on a 03 and up GM pickup chassis with the 6.0 in the "stock" location.
C.G. I hope I wasn't too negaitive. My advice comes from the fact that we also have horses and horse trailers. I do think you could do it and maintain the hotrod feel, but it would take some time, engineering and research to swap the parts, yet maintain the factory reliabilty and ease of repairabilty. Wiring, cooling, steering, brake pedal/master cylinder are really the biggest issues. Hey, all it takes is time and money.
You weren't negative at all. I appreciate the honesty and advice. If I need a reality check at any point feel free to give it to me. Time I hope I have plenty of, money on the other hand is in rather short supply. We have Dutch Warmbloods which are larger than average horses and take a taller trailer, not to mention the investment in time and money we have in each of them. A breakdown on the highway with 4 of those monsters would be terrifying. You made a damned good point and I thank you!
helped put an duramax/Allison in a 56 ford coe. since you stated lack of mechanical ability I would pass and definitely on the quad steer. GM couldn't make it work. The 56 coe was on a ford e350 chassis and the steering was a breeze. the motor was located behind the cab under the bed. the rad and inner cooler mounted up front. This was a plumbing nightmare and not for the faint of heart. The easiest thing to do would be restore what you have and enjoy, those GMC sixes are great motors.
One problem with using a "modern" (70's and up) light truck or van frame is that the frame width is usually wider than that of heavier commercial trucks. Your '51, and practically every truck above a "1-ton" rating, uses a standard 34" wide straight frame. I'm not sure what your budget is, but modern electronic diesels get VERY expensive. Even the most minor part can cost thousands. If it were me, I'd look at a motorhome chassis - they're extremely cheap and have a standard straight frame and 1-ton running gear - and swap in an older Ford/International diesel V8 (7.3L/Powerstroke).
GM G10-G20-G30 are uninbody, but there also is a cutaway van variant which has a regular frame. Even if the front is unibody, you could just cut it away. I'd think that would give you a steering box already pointing in the right direction, and unless you lower the body on the chassis, given those COEs came with an inline six, clearing a late model V-type engine should be no big deal. The only issue I see is the 6.2/6.5 is not super desirable, and a diesel in any sort of van isn't easy to come by. But you could always just use the chassis and run like a 4BT (Isuzu trucks) or a 5.9 Cummins (Dodge), or along those lines. Track width could be a problem. The unibody GM vans have a front suspension that has a straight front crossmember and narrowing the bottom would be easy, although pulling in the upper A-arms is going to require frame mods that will make it damn near impossible to run a stock small block (you only get a few inches on each side in there). I don't know if the cutaway uses the same front suspension.
We have the same kind of horses, so I think your real problem will be finding a vintage, matching 4-horse trailer that is tall enough.
Again, the 96-up GM vans(Express/Savana) are NOT unibody--they are full perimeter frame, same as a pickup truck. I'm not trying to be a dick, it's just that I own three of 'em. I've sort of been eyeballing putting a cabover cab on one of them as well, and it looks promising.
I always wanted to build one with a 4bt Cummins turbo in it. The wiring is almost non existent and they're bulletproof. So you wouldn't have any more electrical issues than you would putting a small block in any hotrod or truck or vehicle. They're dependable . A lot of bread and delivery trucks use them and they are always on the road running time sensitive routes. If it were me, I would upgrade the front and rear axles on the stock frame and run the 4bt. But, whatever you choose to do, good luck . Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
I am enjoying the thoughts on this thread. I guess my needs are similar to CG, I want a modern tow vehicle with a solid unique look. My wife and I want to tour the US with our new 40' 5th wheel trailer. I could buy an 08 F250 for 30K and be like every other truck in the KOA that night, but what about this: My dad has a low mileage (60K) 3/4 ton dodge cummins that pulls like a freight train.. the only problem is it has a 2002 dodge body on it... This truck with an old solid COE body seems like a dream come true to me. Unique, dependable and all the power I want with the stock modern running gear. Why spend 30K on a truck like everybody else... where you have to blink your lights with the key to find it in the parking lot..... In 10 years the F250 would be worth half what I paid, a well done diesel tow-coe might go a bit the other way, not to mention the lawn chair party favor it would be at the KOA. Does anybody know of a cummins dodge coe build? Quick.. somebody slap me before I do something really stupid! Rusty
I'm really glad you posted this CG. I'm in a similar boat and posted a similar question in the COE group. I'll follow along here as we'll. '27 T Roadster build: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=734383
If you're gonna tow much, you'll want the extra two cylinders of a 6bt. I've done a 4bt conversion and have several Twinkie trucks. I love the 4bt and it is easier to squeeze in. It has great torque, but would require a lot of patience to pull four horses.
Thanks for all the replies guys. It is certainly giving me food for thought. In regards to the Quadrasteer I'll explain my feelings on it just a little. We bought one new and it was far and away the best driving handling truck we ever owned. It was in a word, incredible. The issue we had was that it was a regular 1500, not an HD or 2500 and it just wasn't enough truck to keep up with our horse and race car trailer towing duties. GM did a horrible job of marketing the Trucks and the added price of entry stopped people from even test driving them. It's a shame because they were great. Adding that to a COE, while not a common hot rod mod would be different and very useful. If I can't find a way to do it fairly simply, frame or steering issues, etc. I'll certainly go in a different direction. Please keep the ideas and comments coming. I appreciate all the advice and opinions. I'm also happy to see there are others in about the same boat I am. I will plan a build thread as I move forward as well. Please excuse typos, typing on my phone while in a waiting room.
ANyone know if Ron Foss sold his COE (pictured below)? He had a really nice, diesel powered COE, already set up for pulling his travel trailer. Inside, the sleeper was actually more like a stretched cab.
I just talked to Don Foss, nice guy! Yep, this truck has everything I'd want, dodge running gear, AC, automatic.... air ride. Has anybody on the forum ridden in Don's COE? I'm in Texas and the truck in is Oregon, I'm curoius how it runs out. I wonder how much the bank would loan on a 38 ford truck?... hmmmmm.
Flights are cheap insurance. Go check it out in person, in detail. My '27 T Roadster build: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t= 734383
I say do it like we do semis , build the combo for the best strengths for the application , use a g 30 van frame , use the a pre electric cummins BT6 for ease of dropping in ( beel housings are interchangeable to transmissions and and they sell plenty of hop up parts and availability is great as its used in spotting horses and small equipment ) a allison transimission ( proven to hold up behind a diesel) , the reason for using the 6 cylinder is it has a better torque curve and is lighter than the v-8 , and if height is needed you can lay them over ( forgot how many degrees as they do this in some city busses ) the only thing is your going to need a rear axle thats made for the weights a AAS ( GM) 11.5 ( post 2001 ) or dana 80 dually axle is needed as they are rated for 15 K . and have dual pot disc brakes , and since your going diesel , air ride the back end to help the frame , this way it rides nice empty or loaded . and use real truck bags not the car bags , look over a air ride peterbilt to or freightliner to see how its set up . towing puts a lot of torque ( rotation ) on the axle so you have to set the suspension up proper. sounds like a good build , if I had the money or time I would make my own .
I saw Ron's truck at Back to the 50's in 2005. It was very nice. I'm just not sure I can imagine pulling a horse trailer with it down dusty gravel roads.
Ron's truck looks awesome! Rusty if you buy that I might just be a touch jealous, at least until mine is finished. Stimpy, great post and great advice. It makes a great deal of sence. Thank you.
id go with a 4bt cummins like stated before they have a chevy bolt pattern for the bellhousing i believe. and almost all mechanical so not much to wire theres a bunch of box trucks with them you could use the whole chassis
Bts come with interchangeable bellhousings , they bolt on the back of the motor like the old 235 chevys , thats the nice thing about a real truck engine , can go from a th400 to a brown box trans to a clark to a modern Alllison trans . if you want to make a old coe really different get a old school v 53 series detroit diesel with a turbo . there small , and can rev . and have a cool sound to boot .
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