Flathead straight 6 rebuild - help now needed * check post #22

I have a 1958 willys pickup 4x4 and i was getting like 11 miles to a quart of oil! its time for a rebuild. The pickup went into the garage the engine came out. now the real fun starts.


here is the engine with the head removed


front end of the block

 

oil pan is now removed (i guess i didnt get a pick before with pan off and pistions on. but you get the idea.


the next step has got to be pistons

 

It looks like the next step is cleaning the gunk off everything and figuring out what you need. You shouldn't have a hard time finding hard parts for that engine though.

 

now we have to figure out how to remove the spings? they are about in inch down in this vally. a traditional sping compression tools does not work....

 

a good frind of mine suggested a door spring compression tool.


it worked great!

 

time for the timeing and front end plate followed by the front and rear filler blocks

then the main caps come and the crank comes out. (again lacking in pics; im such a slacker)

finally the camshaft and tappets

 

bryce,
your last pictures didnt post. but nice work buddy

 

now for the non fun. this made my heart break a little when i first saw it...



look closer at cylinder 1. (on your left)



yes that is a scratch, gouge... basically it is as big as the grand canyon in terms of engines anyway. think its to big to bore over. gona have to see if my machine guy can sleve it. lets cross our fingers and go from there.

 

yea its grezy. i hope its not to bad in the we shall see. i have a great place to get what i need.

hey there he is. (the genius who thought of using the door spring tool). for some reason i post then it errors. then i edit re-paste the link and it shows up. i duno. damn computers.

 

sleeving works well.

 

i am going to take the block to the machine shop after work today. so here is the final mess.




and lots of labeled baggies

 

AGHHHHH! the anticipation is killing me!. at 5 this morning i figured out how to load the block into my pickup by myself. its heavy. f'n heavy. i strap it down and go to work. all day i got one bloody thing on my mind. take block to machine shop. i volunteer to take a computer home for OT. they bring it to me 5 min befor the end of my shift. damn now i have to be here for another 20 -30 min. ok still goin to machine shop. key in ignition...click click click click. son of a beach. lets crawl underneath the OT tiny pickup, luckily im not that...squishy yet. wow there’s a first for me; the casing of the starter is broke. where the casing flanges out on each side for the bots. one of them just broke... cool. of course i havent put my tool kit back in the pickup yet. not that i had an extra starter anyway. lets call the misses, ring and answering machine. damn again. ring and answering machine. ok lets go back inside since there is AC in there. well while i am wait i ask a few people who i think mihgt have tools in the trucks; figure i can at least get the old POS off. no. ok lets play the game. by play the game i mean talk to HR people and supervisors. make sure they know im still here working this job, and i finished school, and i want a better job. but it was said much more nicely then that. somewhere in there the wife calls. hey honey i need a ride. shes on her way; the bad part it takes at least 30 min. well when she shows up i do down and try to figure out how to get the block from my bed into the back of her liberty! btw i backed into my spot, the bed being uphill and against a flowerbed. damn. when all of a sudden help arrives, he helps me move the block. sweet. and home we go. i now do not have time for the machine shop today as there are other things i must do. A neighbor helps me unload the block. heres the dilemma. i can buy a starter or if i wait i can grab the extra one i have at my parents...4 hours away. we are going there this weekend anyway. besides i have the sporty. except its suppose to rain. and since i now have to ride the sporty its going to rain...a lot. the other vehicles i have are also 4 hours away. really long story short. i did not get to take the block to the machine shop and will not have a chance to until monday.......breathe. i want to get it there and know what i am up against. its going to be a long 5 days. update next week...pending armagedden or whatever.

 

Good luck! I'm sure your engine man can slip a sleeve in and get you back in motion without too much trouble.

 

so yesterday i picked up my starter and gave it a bench test. we are good to go. after work today i completed the install on my OT daily (i hate working on japanese pickups (no offense) 10 lbsof crap in 9 lb bag. my god did they just build the truck around the engine and never plan for changing parts!) anyway i digress. took it home loaded the block and off the machine shop we go. my unlce has used him before and a guy i know that does dirt track racing. i pull up talk to him he comes over to look at it. straight 6...well there are 6 pistons but i would think a 1st grader could get that. then he says flat head out of an old jeep. SCORE! winner winner chicken dinner. Great news it can be sleved.so we talk about the job; boil, flux, sleve, bore, cam bearings, valve seats, the whole shebang. right now we are thinkin about $600, i can deal with that.now i just want to find an adpater to use my 4sp when it all goes back in. i will save all celibrating until i confrirm there are no cracks in the block.

 

So, did you get it rebuilt or not?

 

funny story...its still at the machine shop...

ok it wasnt really that funny.

he has had the block since may...not gona get it done in time for any of the shows that i wanted to make it to. so now im gona do a few other things i wasnt going to touch until later (gona do some more firewall work, relocate the battery, wiring; things i should have done with the block out already, but between work, projects at home, the damn heat and me making excuses i just havent done to much). been just working on a few small things in between now and then and also a lot of non hot rod projects. but i am going to the machine shop today after work to see if he has finished the danged thing yet. We torn down and rebuilt the transfer case and tranny. only 1 bad gear. will let you know more when i know more.

 

Good luck at the machine shop. I love these old engines and like to see them used. Keep on truckin'!

 

so i went to the machine shop...he started on my block (finally). good news there are no cracks. i wasnt sure. it got really hot a few times... bad news. his machine to used to deck the head and block fried the motor...you know i didnt really want to drive my pickup anyway...oh well. maybe next week or the week after i can actually order parts to put this thing back together.

 

by the way i know these things arnt incredibly popular but...does anyone know of any good go fast goodies that are avalible. i know the edmunds made a intake for 2 carbs, they are hard to find and expensive. and i have even seen some aluminum heads...even harder to find and more expensive. anyway. is there anything good that i can get to make a difference? i am going to build my own headers so that will be cool, may not make a big difference but will at least flow more air.

 

To go fastER, you could throw an OD on the back of that Dana!

 

Looking forward to your updates Bryce. I am going to need to rebuild my '60 6-226, and plan to do some vintage speed stuff when the time comes. I did a similar build on a '50 Plymouth flathead six about 12 years ago, and had a blast with it... Here's a pic- You can read all about it at www.50plymouth.com

Pete

 

so i am still working on rebuilding this damn engine. anyways all the machine work has been done but i am running into a snag. so here is the info i can tell you. the crank was polished and ground. the mains went .020 and the journals are .060. i installed the crank and pistons and hand tightened everything. in then torqued the mains down to 90 ft lbs. i did this in a sequence of 5 steps. after i did one i rotated everything. then i did the next one and rotated. i kept this going till i did all of them 5 times to get them to 90 lbs. next i started on the journals. i started in the center and with number 5. then did 3 then 1. they should be torqued to 40-45 ft lbs. i only did 15 for the first round and after each one i rotated the assembly. after 1 i went back and did number 6. after number 6 i could not rotate the assembly anymore.

now. i loosened everything back up. if i tighten down any of the evens, it locks up the assembly and i cant rotate it. but the odds its fine. also when i ordered the bearing they sent me 6 of the same and said they would work. the ones they sent me only worked on the odds, the tabs on the bearings were on the wrong side for the evens. i called and then they sent me bearings for the even side. now these bearings are a different brand then the first set.

i have plastiguaged all 4 mains and all 6 journals. everything comes back with .oo1 clearance. which is what i am suppose to have. i have a really cheap micrometer that i measured the two different bearings with and they came out to the same thickness.

i need help. i cant figure out why the assembly locks up with the evens. any thoughts or suggestions would be great.

 

bump for the morning people.

 

Hopping up the flathead six. Your engine is basically the same as the one used in Kaisers. Their top model was the 140HP supercharged by McCulloch. The same supercharger will fit your engine. I have one in my garage, it has the mount but unfortunately I do not have all the accessories like carb bonnet, pulleys, tensioner etc.

McCulloch claimed a 40% increase in rear wheel HP.

 

To me .001 seems a little tight but as long as it still turns, ok. If they all have equal clearence, the only thing I can think of that would cause it to lock is a bent rod. Try to isolate which cylinder is causing the problem by tightening until it locks then loosen off - I'm referring to the rods - one at a time. The mains seem ok when torqued down. Double check the piston/rod orientation, making sure that the machinist put the rods on the pistons the right way around, this will cause the symtoms you have.

Dave.

 

.001 is what it stated in my repair manual. i have done as you say and tightend individual rods down. i locks up on 2, 4 and 6. all evens. but when the odds are tightend down individually or together. it doesn't lock up.

i dont know how to "Double check the piston/rod orientation, making sure that the machinist put the rods on the pistons the right way around" the machine shop had the parts. but did not put the engine together for me. i am reassembling it. and i know that they are in the correct order and orientation. this there a way for me to tell how he machined them? to make sure they are correct.

 

If you have only one that locks it up, remove the bearings, and tighten the cap back on the rod over to the side or out of the block. Run your thumb nail across the parting line. If it catches, you found the problem. If you are sure the cap is on the right rod, and the tang holes are both on the same side, the rod needs to be honed on its big end.

 

thats the issue. is that it locks up with 2, if i loosen 2 and tighten 4, then i locks up with 4. if i loosen 4 and tighten 6 then i locks up with 6.

i have tested all of the connecting rods, caps, bearings separately. with the 3 evens it locks up and i cant rotate the assembly. but it doesnt do that with the odds. i will do the bearing check ask you described tonight on the 3 evens. all of the rods were machined, the crank polished and ground, and block and head were decked. a cylinder sleeved. it all happened at the same shop at the same time. it seems odd that he would only machine 1/2 of the rods, or 1/2 of the crank.

 

Just a thought, but I had a similar problem on an early MGB once. The rods on that engine were offset from the bore center and IIRC I had two of the rods in the wrong position. Tighten them down and they would bind on the crank journal fillet.

 

Ok, the person who bored the engine would (should) have bored to the new pistons and would (should) have marked the cylinder number and orientation on the top of each piston - notch to the front. You are moving the rods from the old pistons to the new pistons, are you sure of their number and orientation - ie: 1 to 1, 2 to 2, etc., and all the numbers to the same side. Also, the rod caps on the same rod and to the correct side of the engine. I'm not sure, it's been a long time, but I believe all numbers to the right (thrust) side of the engine. Continental Engine?

Then there is the thing with that set of rod bearings that only half of them fit. Are you sure? I've never heard of half the bearings having the locks on the wrong side, but I haven't seen everything. Try swapping #1 and #2 rod bearing sets one at a time and see if it still locks. If it does then it's not the bearings. If it doesn't, well I don't know, problem solved - not possible as it would mean the journals are different size.

Very interesting, I'm sorry that doesn't help, wish I could touch that engine. Me and dozens of other guys who are following this!

Dave.