Serious Budget Problems, or Please Advise

Thank you.

 

I'm about 30miles east of you and i can tell you there are plenty of junkyards around this area with most of the parts your looking for, but for the swap meets here is a list of local swap meets coming up

9/13-15 - decatur swap
9/27 - traders village swap
10/11-13 - canton swap
10/4 - Goodguys show & swap
10/18-20 - lagrave swap
10/24-26 - lone star park swap

And here is a link for a really good donor car....not quite traditional but solid motor, c4 tranny, might even have some usable ac parts, not to mention all the other odd and ends you can rob from this drivable donor.

http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/cto/4002497178.html

 

Thinking aloud, to swap in a different trans like that you will need to figure out the cross member and drive shaft.

I think you should keep your other ride running because you have a bunch of work to knock out.

 

Here is my opinion, KEEP IT STOCK AND THEN DECIDE WHAT YOU NEED TO CHANGE, remember these were greatly engineered mid-graded cars that people DAILY DROVE, and many of us, myself included STILL daily drive old tin

1 If it has a tranny then run it, otherwise wrecking yards are still full of c4's

2 Make some to get you on the road, you can get kits, or just a half dozen or so bends and weld them up

3 You can always add AC later, after all winter is coming anyway

4 Why the hell do you need power steering?? And all the aftermarket columns look like crap in an old car. Worst case if you NEED power steering saw the column off and adapt it. And why the F do you NEED turn signals?

5 Nothing wrong with 6 volt

6....

It sounds like to me you should be able to have it on the road for less than $600 and a case or 2 of beer

 

I've jumped on this thread all day wanting to say something similar to what others have already said, but not wanting to insult you as the original poster. I have got to say it though.

I can see several places where you are setting yourself up for failure in this deal. The very first is keeping a flathead in a fairly large, fairly heavy car that you intend to drive daily, then compounding matters further by adding a non-overdrive mediocre geared auto trans and finally A/C. So many of the guys have suggested going to late model stuff, and they are dead right. It's so damned easy to pickup a running, later engine and trans from a wrecking yard and just put them in. Find something low mileage, do a compression check, make sure there is no oil in the water and vice versa, fire it up and listen, write a check and put it in the truck and go home. I just ran a quick check of Craig'slist here in Phoenix and in either Ford or Chevy I could find that deal for you tomorrow for about 700.00-1000.00.

See, (and I am going to raise the ire of flathead fans with this) by the time your car came around the flathead was just a bit too low torque and lazy to really work well in those cars. In today's traffic, a dead stock '49-'51 Merc would be slow enough to be a genuine hindrance to the traffic around it. Adding an automatic with just three speeds and a 2.46 first gear is just going to make things worse. Your next step would be to gear it up enough to help it off the line, then forget about freeway travel. I had to come to grips with the same stuff about fifteen years ago when a creampuff original '48 Chevy fell into my life. It was nice enough that I didn't have the heart to "street rod" it, yet too slow out of the lights and way too slow to stop to be a safe daily in downtown Phoenix where I live. I ended up selling it to a gent that has happily had it in his collection ever since and pulls it out in the winter on weekends.

I have nothing against flatheads, I've owned a few, and matter of fact, in a light roadster or coupe I love 'em! Nothing prettier and better sounding than a hopped flatty. But, even if I DID build one for one of my cars, it would be coupled to a T-5 or a Tremec so I would have a chance at both in town and highway flexibility. But that's all I would consider putting one in. In a bigger custom type car MY choice would be a Chevy small block, a 200r4, and a rear gear in the mid 3.50 range. Simple, bullet proof and daily driver reliable. Do the same with a Ford 302 if the thought of a Chevy makes you break out in hives.

Another area I see a problem with is the steering column. It's easy as heck to convert a stock column over to auto trans operation. I can't imagine being big enough that you can't find room in a Merc to comfortably drive. The reason I go into this is when you go down to a smaller steering wheel, you lose a large chunk of leverage to turn the car easily. The next thing you know your trying to set up a power steering unit to compensate for the smaller wheel. The again, I have no problem folding my 48 year old, immensely beat up 6'1" 195 pound ass into a T-Bucket or dune buggy or some such craziness. No personal insult intended to you. I also have to come clean and say I personally HATE small, thick padded steering wheels with the fire of a thousand suns.

A/C is a necessity for where you are from, just as it is here in Phoenix. The guys from other parts of the country will never get that, but it is. We are almost at the end of the season, so skip that for right now and get this thing up and going, then before summer hits next year, take a week and get it done. In the mean time save your money for the kit of your choice.

All of the above are the things I have learned in a lifetime of doing this stuff. My personal '48 Plymouth has done about 250,000 miles as my only car of twenty years, and has been in every contiguous state in this country. I don't own a late model car, never have, NEVER will. It took quite awhile to get the car there.

 

^^^^^^^^^^^ I agree with Chip. Any flatty I have driven with a C4 has been less than stellar.

 

I'm with louvers on this one. Felt the same way but don't want to insult the op either but maybe it is time for an intervension. You are what I call a magazine rodder. No offense to this, I run a hot rod shop and there are a bunch of you out there, I deal with them every day. A magazine rodder to me is a guy who loves old cars and looks at all the cool rides in the mags, then all the pretty parts in the ads and starts building their dream car in their head. Problem is they have a lack of experiance to know what works and what doesn't and too often they end up with way too much money in a failed project. You wanting a flathead but a auto, A/C, P/S as well tells me you fall into this group of magazine rodder. Sorry, but that combo is a fantasy for a daily. Even stock a flathead would be marginal in todays traffic. As others said, do a late model swap and enjoy the car. Your want list and a $6000 budget doesn't fit reality as well unless you have the expertise to do it all yourself which it doesn't sound like you do by your questains. FYI non of these fancy parts "bolt in" so don't think your saving any effort buying them.
This questain of what parts to buy, listing really in my mind high dollar unnessasary aftermarket parts is ruining the hobby to me as well. You got to realize a lot of us older guys bought, built and drove old cars well before there was much of an aftermarket. Took more work then sitting on the phone with credit card in hand, sure, but we did it and took great pride in it. Pull-a part is the budget guy's friend.
Bottom line is you need to get out of the magazines and catalogs and into the real world, Find people with real experiance to guide you, join a club, hang out at shows, ect. Maybe search out a shop in your area like ours that is friendly with home builders and give out free advice and sell you the parts/ service you only do need. Talk to guys that built their own cars, follow their lead and you can have a nice daily built on a budget.
Good luck, lots of good advice in these posts, take them to heart and get your car on the road!

 

Is there a cell phone app for that?

 

I just got back from Bonneville. Ask me about budgets.

Doesn't going to a junkyard mean getting dirty and greasy and spiders and things??

 

Weighing all my options again last night I came to many of the same conclusions. Reality: EVERYTHING is a compromise.

So this morning I took the original 3 speed trans with Electric OD to my local transmission shop. It's in good shape considering the 60 years it's been on earth. The input and output shafts are in good shape, internals are tight with no slop, and even the throw-out bearing is good to go. The shop will replace the seals, gaskets, etc and clean it up for paint.

I also laid on a buddy of mine who has forgotten more about metallurgy than I will ever know to help me rebuild the steering column. The slop between the shifter ball and the socket in the sleeve is out of control, so we will rebuild that part and re-install the factory column. This saves significant money and now this plan works since I am going back with the factory transmission.

Sadly, I broke the factory steering wheel. Not on purpose,mind you. But it is broken now. So now I need a replacement steering wheel that will fit the factory steering shaft. The shaft is a tapered rod with a key way. The rod is .750"in diameter, but tapers to.690" just ahead of the threads for the nut that holds the wheel on.

What steering wheels fit this arrangement. I have seen many steering wheels that use a spline set-up. I DON'T want to go back with a factory style Mercury wheel because it's too big. Combined with the angle o the steering column, the 18" wheel rubs my legs when i am in the driver's hole. I want to go down to a 15 inch wheel. I don't worry about the lost leverage going to a smaller wheel.

I can put the original manifolds back on the car, and weld up where I cut the exhaust tubing off (the flange wouldn't let go). I can always upgrade the exhaust any day.

The AC is a must though. High of 100 today. AC shall be done.


Suggestions on a wheel?

 

While I agree with most of the comments on using bone yard resources, stuff is getting harder and harder to come by, given all the stuff crushed in the last 4-5 years. Swap meets are probably a better route and the parts are already off the car.

One item you can wait on. WS wipers. Buy a bottle of Rain ex until you have the coin. You have flat glass and Rainex will take care of it. The best after market system that I have used (6 different cars) is Newport Engeering in Missouri. Check them out on the internet.

 

make your own steering wheel. I threw one together for basically nothing towards the end of my build thread.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=639761

 

I absolutely agree about what Metalman and Louvers said about me. I do have a dream for this car, and I am a neophyte. I have lowered my expectations for this project over and over. Eventually, it won't be anything like I originally dreamed. I gotta tell you I am not sure I even really still want it. I understand my limitations as a builder/parts replacer. Sadly, it's all I can do. I'd love to have a shop some day, but for now, i have a garage attached to my house and a HOA.

Basically, I am not going to end up driving the car I wanted. I am going to end up driving a car that I put significant effort and treasure into, and yet is still a substandard product.

Let's see. No auto transmission, no cool flathead engine, no power steering, no custom body work, etc. Or, I put in a newer, but cliche CBC and trans. Yawn.

Maybe I should just stick to the Ranger. This car will end up just as boring. I'm pretty bummed really. I mean, I'm an optimist, so i regularly dream big. I often have to scale back on my plans. I'm used to that. But I am bummed that I am not going to get close.

 

C'est la vie.

 

Please understand, I'm not telling you to completely walk away from the things you want, it's just that the set of things that you considered must haves are in my experience not conducive to a daily driven car. I HAVE relied on a flathead powered car for daily transpo in years past, and when it involved a three mile, 35 mph surface street jaunt to MY business, (meaning, I was my boss and could be late if worse came to worse) it was tolerable when everything went well. When stuff broke, and it did and will, even with at that time a lifetime's experience as an "old car guy" and a well stocked early Ford store in town, things got a bit dicey. When I left my business and did work with a corporation involving stores all over the Phoenix area, all roughly 20 miles apart it became a nightmare. My solution was to modernize the '48 Plymouth a bit into something that was a tractable and fun freeway, surface streets, AND neighborhood cruiser.

Look man, I'm not trying to step on your dreams, but I have to interject some hard earned reality into them at some point. Build your Merc the way you want, and don't let me or anybody else talk you out of it. Just be realistic about the out come and the usability of the vehicle you create. With the parts list you started with, I'd say keep a late model in your life, at least until you have your hot rodder legs beneath ya for a few years.

 

plenty of junked crown vics out there...po po burn thru em like nothing

 

I have to agree with the guy who made the 1-800-Streetrod comment. Sure it's completely possible to build a nice car out of boxes of brand new stuff that miraculously appear on your porch. Doing it that way on a budget, not possible. A good number of us here are old school guys who were building stuff WAY before Al Gore invented da innanet.. Join a car club and get to know the locals. Put on some old clothes and spend a day poking around junkyards. Note.. I said junkyards, not modern late model only, "automotive recycling centers". Hit some swap meets. Not only will you find some great deals, you'll also meet other guys doing this stuff and get to look at other cool shit in person rather than pictures on a computer screen. Get dirty man... Call me crazy but to me building a car out of a catalog is only slightly less boring than just buying a car that's all done. I can relate to the fact that alot of the old time junkyards are gone but there are still some out there if you know who to ask. This comes back to the suggestion to join a local car club. Us car guys are also bigtime hoarders and some have their own little private junkyards back in the woods. I will use my own surroundings as an example. I'm looking for parts for a 56 Chevy truck project and being on Social Security, money is very tight. Driving home from the dump last week I spotted an old home made trailer in a guys back yard that was made from the bed of a truck like mine. Tracked him down and told him what I was working on and he told me to follow him out through the field across the street in my S10. We go through a clearing and there are 30-35 old cars & trucks lined up in nice neat rows. Now granted that won't happen if you live in the city but if you get to know the guys in your area who mess with old stuff they will turn you on to these places. Just this Monday a neighbor up the street stopped by to see what I was working on and he gave me a rebuildable Chevy 350 engine, a bucket of various pulleys and a pair of rams horn exhaust manifolds. For FREE. Man, you're in TX and can't find any old cars ? Spend an hour on Google Earth virtually going up & down the roads in a 20 mile radius around your house and look down into peoples backyards. You will be amazed at what's still out there. Don't get discouraged, just be creative. Case in point with an OT car I recently finished. A fancy bracket for adjusting the alternator belt was gonna set me back $45 bucks. I went to the local hardware store and bought a $4 aluminum turnbuckle. A few minutes of head scratching and minor modifications and my alternator belt is adjustable AND I have more pride in the fact that it didn't come from a catalog. That's just one of 1000 examples of how you adapt and come out on top.

 

Glad to see you didn't get offended by our comments. I will argue with one statement, there is no way driving a 50 Merc, no matter what shape it is would be as boring as a late model Ranger. I've driven all types of old cars my whole life, some where condidered high doller, some (most!) real pos. They ALL drew attention, they all were enjoyable and additive. I have a nice late model truck in my driveway, has all the bells and whisels but IT'S boring, I'd rather drive the ratty old wagon that needs paint, interior, has no A/C everyday thats parked next to it. No one ever comes up to me and wants to talk about my truck but I can't gas up the wagon (or even stop at a light) without a someone wanting to talk about it. Don't get discourage because your car doesn't have all the trick stuff, get it on the road best you can then let us know how boring it is. You can always upgrade as you go or build a better one next time, heck i've been building cars professionally for 40 years yet I have yet to build my "dream" car. I've never given up, someday I hope it still happens.

 

Sounds like you have high expectations, a street rodder mentality (1-800-rodder), but a low budget. NOT a good combination!
Cars are expensive to build. Especially bigger cars, customs, finished cars, not rat roddy stuff.
The good news is that you can drastically lower your costs. Forget about doing mail order for everything. That's expensive, though it can save lots of time. You really need to "network" if I can use a phrase I hate. Get to know people. Rodders, hobbyists, junkyards. If you can't do the work yourself, use the talent you have to trade off work. Buy bargain parts at junkyards and work them over to fit. If you dont' have space to do an engine swap, maybe you can rent something short term, or work out a deal with a friend with some garage or driveway room.
If you don't have the cash, you need to: get creative, bargain/trade, work with friends who will help you, learn new skills, and get dirty.
It can be done, but it ain't easy!

 

It is all in your perception. Having a '50 Merc, even fairly stock, isn't boring to me. But then, I like the character that old cars bring. If you lean towards street rods and like the creature comforts of newer seats, power windows, power steering, etc.; the '50 Merc will not fill the needs without more cash added to the pot.

The substandard product you describe is what I am building now. I like it.

Maybe time to review what you want. Get the Mercury saleable and buy something more to your liking.

Neal

 

Ok. Today is a new day. I have put the gun back in the drawer. LOL!!

The realization hit me yesterday that my expectations were vastly unrealistic, and that kinda put me in a funk. Still, I am an optimist. I WILL drive this car. I will love and cherish her. Over time I will upgrade her once she is running. As long as I have my Ranger available as a back-up, I can set the Mercury aside for days or weeks while it receives an upgrade.

Speaking of which, I am slowly wrapping my brain around eventually defiling my Mercury with a SBC. I see the logic in it, and I know the SBC is a rodder's bread and butter, but it's not easy for me to consider putting one in my Merc. While the idea of a SMC is generally repugnant to me, I am slowly trying to acclimate to the idea.

Perhaps it will become easier for me in the way a dentist becomes easy. No one happily goes to a dentist--until your tooth hurts so bad the idea of a dentist seems glorious. Perhaps I will drive the flathead until it gives me so much trouble that I am delighted to go to the 350ci SBC. It will make it much easier for me.

 

Have to remember the joy in these cars is driving them, it doesnt matter what is under the hood when its closed. Get the car on the road with whatever it takes and build the flatty / C4 while you enjoy the car. Nothing worse than having a project sit for years because it isnt done exactly the way you want from the start, I have bought enough of those half finished projects to fill a scrapbook.

 

I'm inclined to agree with Need Louvers on this one. As much as I like the flathead I am putting in my Model A I will never have to count on it as a daily driver.

I did however drive my 51 Merc that I bought when I was 16 and a sophomore in high school over 100K with a 350R (Oldsmobile) and turbo 350 in it. Reliable as all get out, got about 17 mpg and we took one trip to Texas and back with it.
I have always advocated going with getting most of the pieces for a engine swap from a running and driving donor car that you can dial in the engine and trans before you pull them. Buy it cheap, drive it home, tune it up, fix the oil leaks and make sure everything you plan to use works right and then pull it out and put it in your project car.

12 V headlights like you want? Some of the later model Jeeps use a 7 inch round light that will fit older rigs works great and doesn't break the bank.
If you aren't hunting a clear lens these work great and with the 55/100 clear bulbs you won't outrun the lights 230188318274 Ebay item. He is right close to you and will have anything you buy from him to you in short order. He also has clear lights with H4 bulbs but you have to modify the bucket behind the lights a bit to clear them 330788532661 I have a set but don't have them in my 71 yet to tell how well I like them.

I'd look for one of the Chevy van tilts that didn't have a key on the column and had the shift indicator on the column if I was swapping to an automatic. Fairly clean units appearance wise and your choice of steering wheels is wide open.