Projects The bucket of ugly! A de-uglifying thread...

thats funny shit right there

My Dad is Dutch...but he learned English off a Yorkshireman and my Mum is Scottish.. his accent throughs lotsa folk a curveball!

 

How you getting on with your Falcon Chip? If you need any parts, I have an aquaintance with quite a stash of them early Falcons , a few wagons for parts too.

 

I LOVE the look of a '32 grille, and of all the early Ford designs, it lends itself to the other years better than any other grille. The one styling feature of a '32 shell that I really like is the bottom half, actually. The way it finishes at the bottom and completes the shape. When you use one on a T, that feature disappears.

Maybe I'm a bit biased against the '32 shell on a T because of the headlights a lot of guys use. I don't care for the overly tall headlight stands and the little tiny headlights when they're matched with a '32 shell. To me, the '32 shell always looks better with big headlights mounted right at about the halfway mark on the shell.

Jimmy needs to scribble up a sketch with a '28/'29 shell, stock Model A or '32 headlights mounted low with a straight spreader bar. I can picture it in my head, and it might just work. Then again, it might not.

 

That is KILLER!

 

X3, deuce shell, but I am not feeling the belled holes. Expanded metal would be what I was thinking for circa '62/'63.

 

Warning, Heresy alert: As far as I'm concerned, when Grabowski jacked the rear of his car up 6" he ruined it. I love the "lightnin' bug" version, have NEVER had ANY love for the "Kookie" version. There, I said it.

 

Jeem, its not the revisionist approach thats the problem, its when the revisionist version starts replacing/re-writing the history. That IS sacrilege, and it goes on on the HAMB every single day.

On the A shell, Chip, your closer to him, drive over and give him smack, before he suggests '34 commercial headlights...

 

I'm in your camp, Falcon. That "ass up" look never made sense on a short wheel base car. The Lightnin' Bug is hands down the better version of the two. There was a thread a week ago that had a T Bucket in it and it looked like the guy was standing in the damn thing. That shit's just plain crazy. IMO.

 

Your just wrong this is T bucket perfection!

 

Hmmmm, interesting theory...


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I'll see your Kookie and "raise"...


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Steel, I get your car, I really do, and I dig its tip of the hat to history, but the Kookie version of the car was an evolutionary blind alley, other than a few clones in the eighties, it wasn't really the model for the T bucket phenomenon that followed, Ivos car was. Clearly, Grabowski did what he did with intent, it was the "look" he was after, the stacks running up the back of the bucket lead your eye upwards as it moves back, and exaggerate the rake even more. But its not a look that does it for me. I do agree that the top was really well proportioned.
And Ivos car was copied from the "Lightnin Bug" version, we know that because we have the photo at Santa Ana of Ivos finished bucket racing the "Bug" version, so we know the car in the story where Grabowski comes home and finds Ivo under his car, measuring tape in hand, is the "Bug" version.
Historians like "what if" scenarios, heres one that I was rolling over in my mind recently.
What if Grabowski had skipped the "bug" and built the "Kookie" version of the car first? Would Ivo have copied it, thereby creating the template that all those sixties era T buckets were cut from? Would there be "T-buckets" as we know them?
Heres my model of T-bucket perfection, just take Dick Thompsons Pontiac powered bucket, and delete the cowl lights, thats it. Its a couple inches longer than Penrys, and its perfect, to my eye.

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Too much really IS too much.

 

Matter of taste. I don't wear my pants like that either. I've got a lot of pics saved of both versions and the Kookie version just isn't as cool. For another, the paint scheme. The Kookie flames don't flow. They look like they were someone's first attempt at painting flames. Add the jacked-up rear and it's just not as cool to me. I also don't really care for the exhaust running up the side and then up along the bed. The Kookie car style is cool, just not as cool as it was. I think having to come up with something different for each show year caused it. Who knows.

A while back, I installed new coil overs on the rear of mine. At first, I had 14" springs rated at 175 pounds. After installation, the rear barely dropped, even with me in it. But I went for a drive anyway. With the rear jacked up just a few inches, it was a serious move in a bad direction. Steering and handling on such a short wheel base was crazy bad. I mmediately ordered shorter springs at a lower rate.

 

Good lord...

 

You are correct "too much is too much" But just enough is perfect! And too little is too little.

On another thread we have been singing the praises of a flat black T bucked. Do you think we would all be in love with Royals T if it was six inches lower in back? I don't think so. It is another version of just the right rake. There is nothing special about his T. SBC, aftermarket headers, modern chrome wheels, but it just sits right.
Sorry I have never seen Ivo's car going off against the "Lightning Bug" version. Post it if you can. Ivo told me he only raced Grabowski once and they both had near stock engines. He takes pride in the fact that he inched out Norm. I knew that was the version Ivo copied because he told me his had a 101" WB with the rear spring on top of the axle. When Norm was changing his T he installed a later banjo with the spring in back which changed the WB to 96"
Do you really think the whole T Bucket revolution would have started without the Kookie Kar version of Norm's T. I don't!
But you guys just go ahead and keep building your flat T buckets and Royal and I will keep getting the praises. And don't tell the "I am not out for praise" lie.

 

Not quite sure what you mean by that Russt29, but your more than welcome to stop by anytime and show me! I'm downtown off of Central and Thomas. Just give me a call if ya get this way, the phone number is at the bottom of the page.

 

The Moonkist T Bucket has the best top. Perfect rake!

 

I really like your idea of a front spring perch cover as on Ivo's car. If you are just after an industrial look forget it but if you want a finished look go for it.

 

Gary, I don't see my copy of the Grabowski/Ivo T-Bucket race right now. I have it in a magazine around here though and when I get back in from my mom's place tonight I'll post for ya!


In the mean time, You guys all argue fair! Glad to see this coming back to life with some lively debate, but I have to say to each his own. Probably the most diplomatic thing that has ever come out of my mouth, but there are elements of both the flat stance cars and of the extreme rake cars that I like. Truth be told though, 9 times out of 10 I'll default to the flatter lower car myself. Gary, where you just got me thinkin' here, Shifter's "T" almost seems to split the difference in the rake department between the Grabowski's extreme rake and Ivo's flatter stance.... So could that be three ways to go?

 

I will dig up that photo and post it. Like the top photo, eh? And yes, I do think the T-bucket revolution would have started without the Kookie, in my (I'd put a humble in there, but that would be lying) it was the Ivo car that spawned the t-bucket revolution.
The stance on Skips car does fall "short" of the Kookie, by a fair bit, and it doesnt have the body raked as much, its a much more subtle car, and in my opinion, is the better for it. The Bug was damn near perfect, and Ivo tweaked the recipe just a bit, and created the template for the T-bucket "look" that followed. The taller windshield, using the back of the touring body, so you dont have the raised character line at the rear side of the body and the squared off lower rear corner, and the slightly lower stance as compared to the bug, and you have the basic T bucket recipe that was the look until Leg Show came along, and the look most of us still think of today.

I LOVE the Bug, I can literally look at it for hours, to be honest, I like it better than Skips. Its very raw looking, very pure in a way, and its very clean looking, if you look at it side on, the drag-link, 4-bars, and header collector are all running very close to parallel to each other.
But really, you put it beside Ivos, and then compare the two to the typical sixties T bucket, Like Penry, Debenidictus, Knutson, Rickels ect. and its obvious where the DNA comes from. Its a direct line from the Ivo car.

The Kookie car shook people up, to be sure. Its RADICALLY different than pretty much anything else that was around at the time. But not many guys set off down the same path, and buckets with a radical body rake and the bottom of the bed almost even with the top of the tire were far and few between. I can dig up a couple more examples, but for every one I find, I can post ten that follow Ivos lead.

 

we're not all in love with Royal's T ,or Ivo's, or Grabowski's.....hows THAT for heresy!!
I love Dan Woods' style bucket, Ted Brown's et all. A later style I guess.

Not tail high,but cowl down.


Chip did you pick up on my query re-your Falcon?

 

How many klones have you seen of the Ivo car? And I too love the Ivo roadster but although beautiful it just isn't a stand out roadster and the Lightnin Bug wasn't either. One Klone only because Von Franko found the original headers. The most Kloned cars have something " artistic and out there" The Kookie Kar, too much rake? Graffiti coupe too low 32 grill? The McCoy 40 two door. Everybody told him "Don't flame that beautiful black car" Now it is probably the most kloned car ever. Other than the Graffiti coupe the other two cars were built by artists. Although the maker of Graffiti could be called an artist and maybe he just saw "the look" in the coupe. I don't want to brag but I will. How many T bucket owners have had someone come up to them and say. "I really don't like T buckets but I like yours" I get it all the time and it is the highest praise I can think of.

 

But Larry, I DO like T-buckets! I'll go a little farther here, and I dont expect anyone to agree with me, or to sway anyone over to my way of thinking, but for my money, the t-bucket was born when Ivo put the 3" chopped windshield on his. To me, the tall, unraked windshield IS what makes it a T bucket, and it, more than anything else, was what re-shaped Grabowski's vision into what we now know as the "T-bucket". When I look at the lightnin' bug, with its steeply raked, 8" tall windshield, I still see an evolution of the track t, not a T bucket. To be sure, it was a HUUUUGE influence on what Ivo built, but for my money, Ivos is the first "T-bucket"

No insult intended to Grabowski, or the Bug, or anything else, but thats the way I see it. And like I say, I do LOVE the bug!

 

OK . . . my turn . . .

I think when Bill Rolland re-did Ivo's car he made it better looking !!!!

 

Pete I agree other than the cowl lamps.

 

x2!!

 

You know, to be clear here, we BOTH agree that too much is too much, and in terms of the stance issue, I'm just drawing the "too much" line about 1 1/2" lower than Larry... Thats not a hell of a lot to quibble about.

 

Hell of a thread you've started here Chip...

 

Well, let me see, you mean how many T-Buckets have I seen with the same stance, 3" chopped windshield posts, a 100" wheelbase, a T grill shell, and a 2' PU box?? Oh, about 10,000!

 

I agree great thread one of my favorite subjects. It's amazing what 1 1/2" makes.

 

I agree if your talking about fiberglass. But that is another subject and that is what Louvers is building so that might be appropriate for this thread.